Rapid Healing

[quantumcarl]

This thread could also be titled Miracle Healing.

If you have a story about a person who heals quickly or has healed faster than conventional medicine predicted... this is the place for your story.

There are also a number of claims concerning methods of healing... using the mind and certain techniques like yoga or kundilini things like that which I rarely even think about...

I do have one example which worked for me:

Louise Hay (http://www.hayhouse.com/defaulte.htm)

Louise uses the power of thought and silent affirmations according to the area of the body that is out of whack... including the subconscious.

Anyway... I'll shutup now!

[FZ+]

Also post if it took LONGER than conventional medicine predicted to recover... I know I have.

Also, doctors tend to be pessimistic in such predictions. Because people getting worse than they said usually gets them fired.

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by FZ+
Also post if it took LONGER than conventional medicine predicted to recover... I know I have.

Also, doctors tend to be pessimistic in such predictions. Because people getting worse than they said usually gets them fired.

Ha!

FZ+... you may be a survivor of your physician's suggestive powers... his/her pessimism may have put off your recovery... although... I had no idea a medic would see you about a hang over!!!

It has been recorded again and again in certain treatment centres that when a specialist... in a white coat... with a pen guard and taped glasses suggests their patient will die in 6 days... they do.

However, increasingly, people are revolted and revolting against these hypothetical and over assumptious prognosises and looking for second and third opinions that hold, not only the facts but, some avenue of escape from the worst case scenario.

Cheers!

[iron~orchid]

It seems a physical hurt is always capable of healing faster than a mental emotional hurt held within our mind.

Power over the mind is the key in both scenarios it would seem.

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by iron~orchid
It seems a physical hurt is always capable of healing faster than a mental emotional hurt held within our mind.

Power over the mind is the key in both scenarios it would seem.

I agree, Iron Orchid... in fact it is my considered opinion that all pain and suffering are a result of psychosomatic conditioning.

If one thinks about it one realises that it is the thought that puts us where we are in any given situation... therefore... any given situation is psychosomatically induced. In other words... the body goes where the thoughts go... so, if my thoughts are saying... "lets hike the antartic"... and my body follows those thoughts and does hike the antartic... and the result is a painful bout of frostbite........ you can say that this condition of frost bite is a direct result of psychosomatic conditions.

Thank you.

[iron~orchid]

At some point in time something may happen that will turn genes on in our bodies that will cause us to physically transform. This is accurate perception of what could happen at the time of transition or morph as some talk about to another density.

The limitations to what our physical bodies can transform to if instructed by the DNA -- i.e. to heal, literally grow taller, rejuvenate, change our physical appearance, capabilities, or whatever -- depends on our receivership capability.

Q: What is receivership capability?

It is a change to a broader receivership -- meaning that we can receive more of something based on how good our receiver is.

Q: What is our receiver? Is it the physical body?

It is the Mind through central nervous system connection to higher levels.

This brings us to the fact -- being the whole issue of gaining knowledge and developing control over our body through our mind -- that if our mind and CNS are tuned to higher levels of consciousness, this will have significance in terms of receivership capability and release of limitations.

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by iron~orchid
At some point in time something may happen that will turn genes on in our bodies that will cause us to physically transform. This is accurate perception of what could happen at the time of transition or morph as some talk about to another density.

The limitations to what our physical bodies can transform to if instructed by the DNA -- i.e. to heal, literally grow taller, rejuvenate, change our physical appearance, capabilities, or whatever -- depends on our receivership capability.

Q: What is receivership capability?

It is a change to a broader receivership -- meaning that we can receive more of something based on how good our receiver is.

Q: What is our receiver? Is it the physical body?

It is the Mind through central nervous system connection to higher levels.



This brings us to the fact -- being the whole issue of gaining knowledge and developing control over our body through our mind -- that if our mind and CNS are tuned to higher levels of consciousness, this will have significance in terms of receivership capability and release of limitations.

Yes. I agree again.

Its not that I necessarily agree about the "higher Powers"... but perhaps the strength that comes with awareness.

Take and example, per chance... like this...

Biofeedback.

Biofeedback is much more efficent in its healing capacity when the person using biofeedback has a succinct knowledge of the different parts of their body... every detail a person has about their various organs helps to focus the healing agent that is being directd by that Biofeedback..............such as white blood cells, etc....

The clearer a picture a person has of their body on this mortal coil... the better job is done of correcting what ails them.

Biofeedback is an interestin sub-topic of this thread...

[TENYEARS]

Carp, dear lord a fish hanging around the borders of the bowl again get back inside.

[iron~orchid]

I was not trying to bring in "higher Powers"... from some outside artificial intelligence community.

Some of the problems are that we do not really understand the physics of conductivity and superconductivity of our own body circuits.

I realize that macroscopic quantum effects are more common for thought. It is evident to everyone who likes to hang at Circuit City that technology is progressing pretty fast in these areas; but the same cannot be said about our body understanding !

Too much research in "safe" areas - is producing nothing but "papers."

Me thinks people are afraid of the discipline involved in control of the Mind which would, thus, increase their "powers" where a health situation could be modified in a beneficial way.

But, alas, this requires work; conscientious and sustained effort. Introspection carried out relentlessly results in enhanced internal sensibility. This improved sensibility in its turn intensifies the amplitude and frequency of movement within the neverous sytstem.

A Mind Practitioner has also theorized that you can stop your body's age by concentrating on keeping it at that particular point where you felt at the height of health and fitness and beauty. See yourself as this and focus energy to that vision of yourself and be it. 41 is a good age to stay........

I hope to study and hear more of your biofeedback techniques in regards to this subject. These outside "powers" may help a person with a bit of the required conscientious work, per say ?!

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by iron~orchid
I was not trying to bring in "higher Powers"... from some outside artificial intelligence community.

Some of the problems are that we do not really understand the physics of conductivity and superconductivity of our own body circuits.

I realize that macroscopic quantum effects are more common for thought. It is evident to everyone who likes to hang at Circuit City that technology is progressing pretty fast in these areas; but the same cannot be said about our body understanding !

Too much research in "safe" areas - is producing nothing but "papers."

Me thinks people are afraid of the discipline involved in control of the Mind which would, thus, increase their "powers" where a health situation could be modified in a beneficial way.

But, alas, this requires work; conscientious and sustained effort. Introspection carried out relentlessly results in enhanced internal sensibility. This improved sensibility in its turn intensifies the amplitude and frequency of movement within the neverous sytstem.

A Mind Practitioner has also theorized that you can stop your body's age by concentrating on keeping it at that particular point where you felt at the height of health and fitness and beauty. See yourself as this and focus energy to that vision of yourself and be it. 41 is a good age to stay........

I hope to study and hear more of your biofeedback techniques in regards to this subject. These outside "powers" may help a person with a bit of the required conscientious work, per say ?!



OK, we can study biofeedback some more. I'll post some links and give some of my understanding about it. There are some relaxation techniques that I should expose here as well. These were used over a 10 year period in a cancer treatment centre and the survival rate during that time climbed to a point that stood above the National statistics of Canada. The concentration of the medical and support staff was not only on Relaxation but also on conventional treatment... so, the results were from a mixed bag of directions.
The Relaxation methods were combined in the Radiation units with music and imagery as well as in the Chemotherapy units.... so the success of this synthesis require some untangling to find the most usefull and the source of the most healing.

A person I met who works in a spa shivered me timbers with her vitality and health. Radiant energy around the pool table. It seems to me that the advantage is in understanding the workings of the body long before any dis-comforts evolve... this way the unbalance can be nipped in the bud. I'm not sure of her age and it would be a hard thing to guess... she had such a control over her fluctuations and generation of wavicles that I do believe she had grappled the essence of quantum existance, early on in life.edit:(in this case, a quantum existance being that ability to exist in all states simultaniously. Again, in this case, using lower states of health like smoking, cavorting and drinking beer as well as higher states and an understanding of good health to achieve some of the other, more elusive, states available in this universe!!!)

[iron~orchid]

Having just come from a two day seminar with 500 physicians in attendance, it is obvious to me that the majority of people drawn unto themselves bad health and, perhaps, a more direct path to their own demise rather than rapid healing. They allow their pain body to control their thoughts and create their reality. Maybe they just need the attention. Maybe it is easier than the discipline it takes to live a fulfilling life of health. I do not know.

It is nice that you allow yourself some freedoms to be out amongst people who intrigue and give you cause for enthusiasm and do not shut everyone out of your space. Your energy is well served by this expansion. thank you and peaceful power to you.

iron ore kid

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by iron~orchid
Having just come from a two day seminar with 500 physicians in attendance, it is obvious to me that the majority of people drawn unto themselves bad health and, perhaps, a more direct path to their own demise rather than rapid healing. They allow their pain body to control their thoughts and create their reality. Maybe they just need the attention. Maybe it is easier than the discipline it takes to live a fulfilling life of health. I do not know.

It is nice that you allow yourself some freedoms to be out amongst people who intrigue and give you cause for enthusiasm and do not shut everyone out of your space. Your energy is well served by this expansion. thank you and peaceful power to you.

iron ore kid

Hi Iron Orchid

A direct path to their demise?

It could be that this is their mistaken perscription for some sort of post traumatic disorder. The body is ferousious in its thrashing about in an attempt to cure what ails it.

The mind is similar, yet with unfocused train of thought, the mind cannot make change as readily as its counterpart, the body.

So, with the mind working on a subconscious level, flailing and thrashing at its unpronounced terrors and its undiscovered causes for grief... the body follows these unfocused directions of the subconscious and slowly, or rapidly, rids the mind of this trapping... the body.

Sort of like... putting one's self out of one's misery.

Another example of this sort of behaviour in the body is the ATTACK OF THE WHITE BLOODCELLS on the nervous system.

Enduring Multiple Sclerosis means enduring one's own immune system continuously attacking one's own nervous system.

I asked... why does the immune system want to rid its host (the body) of the body's nervous system? What is the nervous system doing to generate this autonomic response in the immune system?

My hypothesis is that, over time, a person can have, say, 500,000,000,000 negative thoughts (that are catapulted down the central nervous system in an alarming way)... or more. If this is the case... and you were a white blood cell programmed to protect your host (the body)that is creating all this disturbance... what would you do? For me, I would attack thos bloody nerves. That's what I'd do.

And that's what happens. The immune system attacks the nerve bundles of the body... in the case of MS. They attack and the protective mylinated protein sheath is stripped away... and the nerve is slowly degenerated... basically shutting it up!

Sounds brutal. But, it is almost as if the body wished all of this to happen... right from the first negative thought generated... why? don't know.

But, I have a feeling this applies to most sicknesses. These sicknesses are a kind of quick cure for certain subconscious ailments... hidden, motivating memories that drive the corporeal body toward a quick fix... that may, or quite often may not, be just what the subconscious doctor ordered!

Thank you for your well wishes. You have all of mine, as well, eh?!

[iron~orchid]

Natural Remedies for the body/mind natural distraughtness -- What about a natural health factory like the Earth was originally meant to be?

There should be a large number of factories in America so that these healthful articles could be obtained in every grocery store.

THE COUNTRY DOCTOR: The following is an extract from "The Sawdust Trail".....

During the first three years of my life, I was sickly and could scarcely walk. Mother used to carry me on a pillow which she made for that purpose. There sere no resident physicians in those pioneer days, and itinerant doctors would drive up to our cabin and ask, "Anybody sick Here ?"

One day, Doctor Avery, A Frenchman, called at our cabin and mother told him, "I have a little boy three years old who has been sick ever since he was born."

The old doctor said, "Let me see him." He gave me the once over while I yelled and screamed like a Comanche Indian. Then he said to Mother, " I can cure that boy."

She asked him how much he would charge, and he replied, "Oh, if you will feed me and my old mare, that will pay the bill."

Mother said, "All right, but you will have to sleep up in the garret. We have no stairs and you'll have to climb the ladder."

He replied, "That suits me." He then went into the woods and picked leaves from various shrubs, including mulberry leaves and elderberries, dug up roots, and from them made a syrup and gave it to me. In a short time I was going like the wind and have been hitting on all eight ever since. From that day to this, elderberries and mulberries have been my favorite wild fruits, and I like sassafras tea.

I do not believe that there is a disease to which human flesh is heir but that somewhere there is growing a weed or an herb or plant that will cure it. Somewhere there is a remedy for the dread plagues of the human race, consumption and cancer. God has made the cure and is waiting for man to discover it.

The greatest doctor this world ever knew is an old Christian mother, and my mother was the greatest of all. I regret that I did not write down the names of all the herbs and roots she knew, and the diseases they would cure. When she put on the "specks" to look at the sore and spread salve on it, that made it almost well.

You may name this suggestive therapeutics or the power of mind over matter. All these designations are as useless as the name of the horse that Paul Revere rode. The fact remains.

[TENYEARS]

iron~orchid, don't know you very well but I know you very well. The only trophy modern man has over is ancestors is his absolute ignorance and arogance. The arogance makes him less than he is because the mind is closed to reality instead of being objective and open to it.

The used intelligence of most modern day thinkers goes about this far. Experts say most accidents happen within 7 miles of your home. That is why everyone is constantly moving including the experts. If one understands the nature of what caused the joke. The whole world changes from top to bottom because there will be no top and there will be no bottom.

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by iron~orchid
Natural Remedies for the body/mind natural distraughtness -- What about a natural health factory like the Earth was originally meant to be?

There should be a large number of factories in America so that these healthful articles could be obtained in every grocery store.

THE COUNTRY DOCTOR: The following is an extract from "The Sawdust Trail".....

During the first three years of my life, I was sickly and could scarcely walk. Mother used to carry me on a pillow which she made for that purpose. There sere no resident physicians in those pioneer days, and itinerant doctors would drive up to our cabin and ask, "Anybody sick Here ?"

One day, Doctor Avery, A Frenchman, called at our cabin and mother told him, "I have a little boy three years old who has been sick ever since he was born."

The old doctor said, "Let me see him." He gave me the once over while I yelled and screamed like a Comanche Indian. Then he said to Mother, " I can cure that boy."

She asked him how much he would charge, and he replied, "Oh, if you will feed me and my old mare, that will pay the bill."

Mother said, "All right, but you will have to sleep up in the garret. We have no stairs and you'll have to climb the ladder."

He replied, "That suits me." He then went into the woods and picked leaves from various shrubs, including mulberry leaves and elderberries, dug up roots, and from them made a syrup and gave it to me. In a short time I was going like the wind and have been hitting on all eight ever since. From that day to this, elderberries and mulberries have been my favorite wild fruits, and I like sassafras tea.

I do not believe that there is a disease to which human flesh is heir but that somewhere there is growing a weed or an herb or plant that will cure it. Somewhere there is a remedy for the dread plagues of the human race, consumption and cancer. God has made the cure and is waiting for man to discover it.

The greatest doctor this world ever knew is an old Christian mother, and my mother was the greatest of all. I regret that I did not write down the names of all the herbs and roots she knew, and the diseases they would cure. When she put on the "specks" to look at the sore and spread salve on it, that made it almost well.

You may name this suggestive therapeutics or the power of mind over matter. All these designations are as useless as the name of the horse that Paul Revere rode. The fact remains.

Good morning Fe Orchidus!

Of course the remedies for what I proport to be psychosomatic ailments are abundant and prolific throughout the sphere of the earth. For every ill thought there is a counterweight.

However. My main thrust in this thread is that there is often times no need for medicines, if and when the mind of the stricken has excercised its power to control its counterpart, the body....... like the old guy from Tacoma said to his wife: "mind over matter, Scarlet".

Further to that, mind you, once the subconscious has done its worst and brought the body into harm's way, and the body is cut or bruised or the cells mutated and so on and so on... here is when the Shark Cartilage or the Bladder Wort and the Willow Bark of the Christian Mother or the Hindu Shaman or the Firstnation Medicine Man come in handy. And, as you say, the more the patient believes in any remedy... including Radiation Therapy... the quicker, quite possibly, they will recover............perhaps.

Then again, one doubt lurking in the back of the mind can hinder progress in any given direction.

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by TENYEARS
iron~orchid, don't know you very well but I know you very well. The only trophy modern man has over is ancestors is his absolute ignorance and arogance. The arogance makes him less than he is because the mind is closed to reality instead of being objective and open to it.

The used intelligence of most modern day thinkers goes about this far. Experts say most accidents happen within 7 miles of your home. That is why everyone is constantly moving including the experts. If one understands the nature of what caused the joke. The whole world changes from top to bottom because there will be no top and there will be no bottom.

This thread examines the phenomenon of rapid healing or miracle healing. If you have some data or experience about the subject to contribute, please do.

Otherwise, please keep what appears to be your annoyoing musings about dickity squat out of this thread. First and last warning.

[iron~orchid]

Regardless of the sophistication of the specialists, treatments, pharmacodynamics or words,

........."The fact remains."

...."When she put on the "specks" to look at the sore and spread salve on it, that made it almost well."

What is that "fact" or factor which induced the patient in the scenario above to sway toward healing ?

Hint: It was not the salve.

[TENYEARS]

Otherwise, please keep what appears to be your annoyoing musings about dickity squat out of this thread. First and last warning.

The only annoying thing on this forum Carl is your stupidity and arrogance. You have no clue and it's obvious to anyone that knows but only one thing truly. The point that applies to this thread you don't obviously understand. That would be your problem, it was meant for iron~orchid. I may appreciate all life, but I still swat the occasional mosquito.

[iron~orchid]

FINE. I am out of here since my posts are so annoying.

peaceful swat team to you

[quantumcarl]

Iron Orchid, your posts are not annoying to me.

10 years. I warned you.

[quantumcarl]

Iron Orchid, your posts are not annoying to me.

10 years. I warned you.

[FZ+]

Time out folks. Keep it reasonably clean.[a)]
Or big bad FZ+ will get you...

[TENYEARS]

Iron O, your post was good. Why do you waste your time on a forum with fools I do not know. The swat was for Carl. The fish here swim in bowl that have no walls. They place the walls there in there own minds and expect other poeple who have none to ackhnowlege the limitations they place upon themselves. Carl, son you shouldn't make threats you can't back little guy, can I get you a step stool to reach the keyboard.

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by TENYEARS
The only annoying thing on this forum Carl is your stupidity and arrogance. You have no clue and it's obvious to anyone that knows but only one thing truly. The point that applies to this thread you don't obviously understand. That would be your problem, it was meant for iron~orchid. I may appreciate all life, but I still swat the occasional mosquito.

Just saving these inferences for prosperity.

[TENYEARS]

Carl, would that be the photoelectric affect in the little box or is it the recoil of human action upon itself in a nonrelative environment?

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by quantumcarl
This thread examines the phenomenon of rapid healing or miracle healing. If you have some data or experience about the subject to contribute, please do. This is a simple issue. The "phenomenon" is nothing more than a biproduct of statistical probabiliy. Given a large enough sample, you will ALWAYS get a few results from ANY experiment that are way off in left field. Such as the occasional rare rapid recovery.

Of course what you don't often see is the inverse being cited - for every person who had a rapid and unexplained recovery from a terminal illness there is another (or maybe 100 others) who had a rapid and unexplained DEATH from something treatable.

Discussion over. Now where did I put that beer...?

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by russ_watters
This is a simple issue. The "phenomenon" is nothing more than a biproduct of statistical probabiliy. Given a large enough sample, you will ALWAYS get a few results from ANY experiment that are way off in left field. Such as the occasional rare rapid recovery.

Of course what you don't often see is the inverse being cited - for every person who had a rapid and unexplained recovery from a terminal illness there is another (or maybe 100 others) who had a rapid and unexplained DEATH from something treatable.

Discussion over. Now where did I put that beer...?

That would set the dominos in motion. Wouldn't it.

All that you have pointed out to me here is that there are a majority of weak willed patients in the world who give into whatever a doctor thinks is wrong with them. They seemingly cannot think for themselves nor are able to diagnos and treat themselves because they have taken no interest in their own health and well being. They leave it up to the health industry to decide what perscription will work for them.

Its criminal. BTW, I decide when this discussion is over.

[iron~orchid]

Please accept my apology for having withdrawals. Since I find the subject of interest, I would like to continue the discussion. thank you.....thank you very much.

The phenomenon of spontaneous remission, in which a person is "miraculously" cured of a terminal disease such as cancer, occurs when for some reason the person is reconnected more completely with their underlying field of intelligence.

A disease cannot take hold without a host who for one reason or other is unable to fend it off.

Healing is a matter of removing the blocks to the free unfoldment of intelligence by re-establishing the connection between mind and body at a fundamental level.

There are Sense Therapies which aim directly at balancing the physiology by balancing its functioning at the fine junction point where non-matter is transformed into matter.

I was watching a program about Harmonic Sound Therapy and its success in pain relief and remission in cancer patients as well as its use for pain relief in women delivering their babies without the use of drugs and it had this most beautiful sound being created by waving a wand around a Buddhist Temple Bowl a bit like rubbing your finger around the top of crystal stemware where the champagne is used for the stress relief thing.

The five senses usually transport awareness outside. With sense therapy, you use the senses to direct attention inside. The senses directed inward provide a powerful healing tool, because they themselves communicate frequencies, or vibrations, to the mind.

Color therapy makes use of the frequencies of the visual light spectrum, aromatherapy employs frequencies that activate the olfactory system, and sound therapy utilizes the frequencies of sound.

The

[FZ+]

A disease cannot take hold without a host who for one reason or other is unable to fend it off.
Not completely correct. Recurrent illnesses do exist, with diseases hidng in your body for some time.

Healing is a matter of removing the blocks to the free unfoldment of intelligence by re-establishing the connection between mind and body at a fundamental level.
As far as our current understanding of the mind goes, conscious awareness is seated firmly in the brain, taking in sensations from the rest of the body. There is little evidence for a direct connection between the mind and the immune system - white blood cells don't have nerve terminals or mobile phones.

There are Sense Therapies which aim directly at balancing the physiology by balancing its functioning at the fine junction point where non-matter is transformed into matter.
Whaaat? Non-matter transformed into matter? Heeelllooo?

The five senses usually transport awareness outside. With sense therapy, you use the senses to direct attention inside. The senses directed inward provide a powerful healing tool, because they themselves communicate frequencies, or vibrations, to the mind.
This is incorrect. The parts of the brain attributed to meditation and other such exercises have little to do with the sensory systems. This is confirmed by brain scans.

Ok, I will now plug my personal theory here.
Pain as we all know (and if LG was still around he would point it out constantly) is a subjective phenomenon. Pain is felt in the brain, and hence this opens up the possibility for nerve impulses from nearby parts of the brain to overide the ones in the pain centres. This is how strategies work as pain relief. In mediatation or prayer, parts of the brain are activated which mask the signals from the pain centre. It still hurts, but we just don't feel it. Sensory based therapies would by providing cues to such relaxation circuits, or by foolling the brain into producing dopamine, a morphine derivative. The majority of such cures are hence symptomatic - you don't get better, you feel better. And if by luck you do get better, you state of mind is better suited to take advantage of better conditions. Some cures may indeed have a direct effect and actually make you get better, perhaps by exciting certain immune responses. But as far as I can tell, these are few and far between.

[iron~orchid]

I choose not to use my body for disease.

or Old Age.

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by iron~orchid
I choose not to use my body for disease.

or Old Age.

I choose to say... the choice is yours!

[iron~orchid]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The five senses usually transport awareness outside. With sense therapy, you use the senses to direct attention inside. The senses directed inward provide a powerful healing tool, because they themselves communicate frequencies, or vibrations, to the mind.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
response:

This is incorrect. The parts of the brain attributed to meditation
and other such exercises have little to do with the sensory systems. This is confirmed by brain scans.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
comment:

The mind and the body work in conjunction with one another to regulate our physiology. In order for the mind to act appropriately to assist the physical body, we must use our senses as information gatherers.

We can think of the mind as a computer and the senses as the data which gets entered into the computer. Smell and taste are two important senses that aid in the digestive process. When the mind registers that a particular food, such as a dill pickle, is entering the gastrointestinal tract, it directs the body to act accordingly by releasing various digestive enzymes. However, if we overindulge the taste buds with too much of a certain taste, like too much sweet, we may find that the ability of the mind to perceive the sweet taste is impaired; and thereby the body becomes challenged in its ability to process sweet foods.

Maintaining the clarity of our senses is an essential part in allowing the mind and body to integrate their functions and help in keeping us healthy and happy individuals.

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by quantumcarl
All that you have pointed out to me here is that there are a majority of weak willed patients in the world who give into whatever a doctor thinks is wrong with them. They seemingly cannot think for themselves nor are able to diagnos and treat themselves because they have taken no interest in their own health and well being. They leave it up to the health industry to decide what perscription will work for them.

Its criminal. Patient: My leg hurts.
Doctor: Its broken.
Patient: No it isn't.
Doctor: See this hairline fracture on the X-ray?
Patient: Thats a hair on the film.
Dorctor: Fair enough. That'll be $200.

Give in to the doctor?? What are you PAYING him for? Criminal? Its their JOB to treat sick people. I'm sorry, but not everyone is capable of being their own doctor. Doctor's spend 10 years training for that reason.

Quantum, did you have a bad experience with a doctor that is affecting your opinion of medicine? If you did, that would explain a lot.

I have an example for you. 10 years ago, my grandfather had an aneurism of the aorta. If you don't know what that is, his aorta was about to pop like a balloon. He was diagnosed in a small hospital outside Allentown, PA. He needed nearly immediate surgery. The surgeon there wanted to do the surgery. My mother asked the surgeon's success rate: 1 for 3 in the past year. So my mom convinced her father to instead fly to Dallas where there is a world class heart center. He made a full recovery.

The first doctor didn't give my grandfather all the information he needed to make an informed decision on where to get the surgery done. Unethical? Maybe. Illegal? No. And NONE of that changes the fact that he did indeed have an aneurism that did need to be fixed to save his life.

There is something you need to remember about medicine: Its a science. So when a doctor gives you some medicine (or tells you you need surgery, etc.), you can bet that there is a LOT of reasearch backing up what that doctor is saying the medicine will do for you

iron~orchid, the vast majority of what you are talking about is simply fraud or at best self delusion (by the "healer" and the patient). The idea of "touch therapy" for example was thoroughly and unequivocably shown to be without merit by a 10 year old girl. For a science project, she did a double-blind test where "touch therapists" put their hands through a partition and tried to tell which hand the tester put her hand under. She's the youngest person ever to be published in the New England Journal of Medicine. Read about it in "Voodoo Science" by Robert Park.

[iron~orchid]

If alternative health remedies are voodoo science, why are major players in the healthcare inductry including this as a covered benefit for their subscribers ?

There are unique constitutional differences within all individuals and different regimens should be considered acceptable for different types of people. Although two people may appear to have the same outward symptoms, their energetic constitutions may be very different and therefore call for very different remedies.

An ancient healing system of India called Ayurveda, was founded in the Himalayas and Southern India before or around 5000 years ago by sages and gurus who did not separate the external world from man's inner world, nor did they isolate man's spiritual anguish from his other sufferings.

The word Ayurveda comes from Sanskrit words, Ayus meaning life and longevity, and Veda meaning Knowledge or Science. Therefore, Ayurveda is The Science of Life, specifically referring to harmonious integration of the body, mind, senses and spirit; An art of living, an art of being.

European surgeons translated and brought into practice Indian surgery technics described in the encyclopedic writings of the Ancient Ayurvedists where they recorded the strategies that worked and those that didn't for every aspect of health and way of living. (1000 B.C.) including that of how to repair damage to the face; traditional aesthetic treatment which was devised to restore the beauty of the Maharajas and princes who were deformed while fighting a battle. This technique fostered the discipline we now call plastic surgery.

Thus, Ayurveda for centuries has prevailed consciously or unconsciously in our existence regardless of where we live; but is still awaiting its long due to be in light. Only because our era of mad-cows, crazy chickens and polyester pigs demands it. Rise in global temperature has created havocs in the past few years and worst is still to come. In the times of net, news and nuclear we as mankind are asking this question more seriously then ever before: Whether healthy man means healthy earth or healthy earth means healthy man?

Ayurveda posed that question nearly 2000 years ago.

[iron~orchid]

As you see, you are not going to get many examples of miracle healing, quantumcarl. I imagine those whose cure survival was a miracle do not discuss it much due to the nonbelief factor of the listener. They probably keep it to themselves.

I think you see more of the miracle death scenario -- for instance, a woman who is full of spirit and spunk whose life shared partner passes away suddenly and family end up standing around her graveside within the next year. She no longer willed her body to stay alive.

----------------------------

I see more of the miracle healing in nature -- like a tree with a limb cut off, healing over with a protective scar. A plant left outside in its pot freezing and being discarded into the burn pile suddenly sprouting new stalk when the sprin sun warms the dirt around its root.

I have found my horse standing in the pasture with its face scalped -- the flap of skin from the eyes down hanging -- by running into barbed wire fence. The horse was not running around frantic yelling call 911 call 911. It just stood there probably thinking it was hard to breathe and eat with this flappy thing hanging down. This horse was taken to the barn and the skin sewn back into place with a curved needlepoint needle. Healing time was minimal. Another horse had a foot long gash in its hindquarters requiring internal surgery to repair torn muscle as well as the huge cute of hide. With 30 minutes of hydro therapy -- high pressure water hose -- applied twice a day for two weeks, that wound was healed with a scar that eventually became barely visible.

I have had a cattle dog injured with a cow stepping and crushing the foot causing the dog to have the leg amputated. 48 hours after the leg was removed, I arrived at the veterinary office to pick her up and she came running -- not limping around on crutches and feeling sorry for herself under heavy pain medication -- and she jumped up into the front of my truck. She was not concerned about the loss of a leg she was just glad that mom had come to get her out of that place.

It is known that wolves will chew their own leg off to free themselves from the cruelty of a human set spring trap and go about their lives. In contrast, a man recently was in the news who had cut his own arm off to free himself when he became trapped in, I believe, a rock climbing accident. Humans and the media made such a hugh scene about it for days.

How do animals and nature's own plants heal within miracle time with devastating injuries and sometimes the only meds are a leaf or bit of grass and water or none at all ? My dogs even know to munch on the grass outside when they have an upset tummy (probably from something I fed them) in order to relieve themselves.

How do they do it ? They do not let a thinking mind take over and tell them it is impossible.

[FZ+]

If alternative health remedies are voodoo science, why are major players in the healthcare inductry including this as a covered benefit for their subscribers ?
Psycogenic effects. Lower suicide rate by people believing they would make it.

The mind and the body work in conjunction with one another to regulate our physiology. In order for the mind to act appropriately to assist the physical body, we must use our senses as information gatherers.
You missed it. The senses look OUT. And most physical things are processed subconsciously.

We can think of the mind as a computer and the senses as the data which gets entered into the computer.
No. The senses are the mouse etc that provide input. And mouses can't look. They don't debug. You need a specialised chip to process internal problems.
And typing documents on word does not solve your bios failures. These two are separated from each other in the structure of the computer.

However, if we overindulge the taste buds with too much of a certain taste, like too much sweet, we may find that the ability of the mind to perceive the sweet taste is impaired; and thereby the body becomes challenged in its ability to process sweet foods.
Evidence? And there is a key difference here: The sensing is entirely external. If the attention of the taste is diverted inwards to the stomach, I doubt you will feel much better.

This horse was taken to the barn and the skin sewn back into place with a curved needlepoint needle. Healing time was minimal.
Horses unlike people don't care about looking pretty. If it happened to a person, he probably wouldn't die of it either.

Another horse had a foot long gash in its hindquarters requiring internal surgery to repair torn muscle as well as the huge cute of hide. With 30 minutes of hydro therapy -- high pressure water hose -- applied twice a day for two weeks, that wound was healed with a scar that eventually became barely visible.
But what about the performance of the muscle? In most racehorses, that sort of injury eliminates their sporting opportunities for life.

She was not concerned about the loss of a leg she was just glad that mom had come to get her out of that place.
Indeed. Thank you Mr Antibiotic.

How do animals and nature's own plants heal within miracle time with devastating injuries and sometimes the only meds are a leaf or bit of grass and water or none at all ?
They sometimes do that. Mostly they become fertiliser and you never hear of them again.

My dogs even know to munch on the grass outside when they have an upset tummy (probably from something I fed them) in order to relieve themselves.
Because dogs are meat eaters, and their stomach trouble are often due to lack of fibre, with the grass relieves. Humans on the other hand eat fibre regularly, and hence never get the sort of problems dogs get in the first place.

How do they do it ? They do not let a thinking mind take over and tell them it is impossible.
Sit down young child and let me tell you of the great canine scientist, Woofie... Aye, it is a great tale indeed...

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by iron~orchid
If alternative health remedies are voodoo science, why are major players in the healthcare inductry including this as a covered benefit for their subscribers ?

There are unique constitutional differences within all individuals and different regimens should be considered acceptable for different types of people. Although two people may appear to have the same outward symptoms, their energetic constitutions may be very different and therefore call for very different remedies.

An ancient healing system of India called Ayurveda, was founded in the Himalayas and Southern India before or around 5000 years ago by sages and gurus who did not separate the external world from man's inner world, nor did they isolate man's spiritual anguish from his other sufferings.

The word Ayurveda comes from Sanskrit words, Ayus meaning life and longevity, and Veda meaning Knowledge or Science. Therefore, Ayurveda is The Science of Life, specifically referring to harmonious integration of the body, mind, senses and spirit; An art of living, an art of being.

European surgeons translated and brought into practice Indian surgery technics described in the encyclopedic writings of the Ancient Ayurvedists where they recorded the strategies that worked and those that didn't for every aspect of health and way of living. (1000 B.C.) including that of how to repair damage to the face; traditional aesthetic treatment which was devised to restore the beauty of the Maharajas and princes who were deformed while fighting a battle. This technique fostered the discipline we now call plastic surgery.

Thus, Ayurveda for centuries has prevailed consciously or unconsciously in our existence regardless of where we live; but is still awaiting its long due to be in light. Only because our era of mad-cows, crazy chickens and polyester pigs demands it. Rise in global temperature has created havocs in the past few years and worst is still to come. In the times of net, news and nuclear we as mankind are asking this question more seriously then ever before: Whether healthy man means healthy earth or healthy earth means healthy man?

Ayurveda posed that question nearly 2000 years ago.

Well Orchid... my philosophy is indifference. If people decide they want to go a certain route... let them.

Its also called non-infringement.

Its only when the person infringes upon my own well being that I will help them along their way to a better understanding of what i believe in. Or, if they seem too thick... I'll leave them standing alone... the way they probably like it.

Other wise... like I said... let them believe what they believe... and let yourself believe what you believe... without interference from other people... unless other people have something that "works for you".

Oh... and I must stress...
"Able, able, get your elbows off the table".

And, as Collective Soul says:

Why follow me to higher ground
Contagious as you say I am.

[iron~orchid]

I do not follow you, quantumcarl. Not in understanding what you think I am doing to you, anyway.

But I take it that I am interfering by discussion on your thread.

my apology

buenos noches

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by iron~orchid
I do not follow you, quantumcarl. Not in understanding what you think I am doing to you, anyway.

But I take it that I am interfering by discussion on your thread.

my apology

buenos noches

No no. I'm simply saying I am right to choose whatever method of healing or living I wish to choose. No one has a right to stop me from that choice. Unless my choice interfers with someone's right to choose a method of healing and living.

I am sorry to read what you've written about your animals. I hope you have investigated the cause of your horses injuries completely and so on... so it does not happen again.

I'm alot like those animals... I had a production designer drive over my foot on a film once and I survived without really hurting... and not caring about what my foot looked like... sort of flat...

I wish you and everyone good health... its hard to avoid, actually!

[iron~orchid]

Yes, thank you, quantumcarl.

Investigation: When men build fences, they should keep in mind that barbed wire and horse flesh does not mix. Cattle have much thicker hide -- for which barbed wire was created to contain.


FZ+

your statement: They sometimes do that. Mostly they become fertiliser and you never hear of them again.

comment: Who is to say the same was not meant to be the natural course for man, as well, and that man would maybe be happier that way -- not hanging around so long trapped by beliefs and attitudes ?

The ego does not want it to be so. It is afraid to let life transition into the honor of death. What dies ?

Illusion dies, expectations die, greed for having it all, for wanting to have all be beautiful only, all this dies. If man cannot detach from his attachment to physical things; if he is manically into control; or if he has untoward tendencies (a darkness within him), it is hard or impossible for him to leave this dimension willingly.

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by iron~orchid
If alternative health remedies are voodoo science, why are major players in the healthcare inductry including this as a covered benefit for their subscribers ? Because the placebo effect is real. People THINK the are doing something useful so they get better. People would save a lot of money if they could be convinced that frugality was good for their health.The word Ayurveda comes from Sanskrit words, Ayus meaning life and longevity And what, pray tell, was the average life expectancy of an Indian 5000 years ago? 25? REAL medical science is only 100 years old. And not coincidentally, the average life expectancy in the western world has more than DOUBLED this past century. Rise in global temperature has created havocs in the past few years No. It hasn't. The worry is for the future. Global warming has done NOTHING yet beyond a 2F increase in average temperature, which is statistically insignificant. In 100 years it will be causing a lot of problems (if not checked) - but not today.How do animals and nature's own plants heal within miracle time with devastating injuries and sometimes the only meds are a leaf or bit of grass and water or none at all ? NONE of what you desribed qualifies as "miracle healing" unless the miracle is biology itself.

Iron, do you know anything about homeopathic medicine...?

No no. I'm simply saying I am right to choose whatever method of healing or living I wish to choose. No one has a right to stop me from that choice. Unless my choice interfers with someone's right to choose a method of healing and living. Certainly, quantum. But there is a responsibility for the PROVIDERS to not be defrauding their patients. Herbal medicines for example can be dangerous (ephedra) but the law currently exempts them from federal regulation because they are "natural" (BS word - arsenec is natural too). There needs to be a MAJOR crackdown on snake-oil selling. It kills people even if only by convincing them NOT to take action that is proven to work.

[iron~orchid]

quote:
And what, pray tell, was the average life expectancy of an Indian 5000 years ago? 25? REAL medical science is only 100 years old. And not coincidentally, the average life expectancy in the western world has more than DOUBLED this past century.

comment:

And double life expectancy --- is a GOOD thing ?

The medical and health care fields are "Big Business" these days creating a legal stranglehold over humanity. Yes, keeping them alive longer so they can produce more money for feeding the controllers.

A point trying to be made is that people bring on their own health problems as a result of the mindset affecting the physical body -- which appears the majority of that is via unhappiness with their life.

It boggles me that people pretend it's not happening. Feigned naivety is a form of denial. All of the religious acclaim that is being focused on a Heaven where all is in perfect harmony and beauty and peace for the soul and everybody wants to go there. Everybody WANTS to go there, but they go kicking and screaming to the edge of death -- preventing the only WAY to go there. Does this make sense ???? They extend their misery on Earth to keep from going to this Heaven.

What this tells me is that people do not REALLY believe it is there for them to go to. That is why they are so fightened to die.

But why are they so frightened to live ? If they could have power over their own mind and thought processes and, thus, prevent much of the bad health and injuries they bring on themselves, this would be a miracle in healing.

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by iron~orchid
Yes, thank you, quantumcarl.

Investigation: When men build fences, they should keep in mind that barbed wire and horse flesh does not mix. Cattle have much thicker hide -- for which barbed wire was created to contain.




Fe Orchidus..

Please tell me you found the barbed wire the horse slashed its face up with... and that this was not the vandalistic work of an extra from the movie "Deliverance".

Throughout my many many years of experience with horses I have never seen a horse disfigured by barbed wire, except perhaps a few nics along the belly. And I've had a lot of experience with barbed wire, as well.

Russ, if you say zo. Sellers of ineffective or harmful medicine will be procecuted.

Even water is toxic... especially if you drink too much or try to breath it. It is the responsibility of the person utilizing water to utilize it responsibly. Oxygen is a carcinogen, too. These are realities humans have dealt with for a long time.

OK, bye now.

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by quantumcarl
Russ, if you say zo. Sellers of ineffective or harmful medicine will be procecuted. Unfortunatly, no. The FDA is powerless to regulate ephedra or any other herbal remedy.

And double life expectancy --- is a GOOD thing ? You're in a tiny minority if you think its a bad thing. In fact, it is the most direct evidence we have of the vast success of modern medicine.

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by russ_watters
Unfortunatly, no. The FDA is powerless to regulate ephedra or any other herbal remedy.

You're in a tiny minority if you think its a bad thing. In fact, it is the most direct evidence we have of the vast success of modern medicine.

Well that's good and bad. If the FDA lay off Lisine then anyone with shingles will be able to cure it within 3 days... rather than wait 2 months in pain for it to run its course. Dave Letterman would have benefited from it.

I've never heard of Ephedra. There's good herbalists and there's bad herbalists... like anything in life. Eh

[FZ+]

comment: Who is to say the same was not meant to be the natural course for man, as well, and that man would maybe be happier that way -- not hanging around so long trapped by beliefs and attitudes ?
Because there is no evidence for such a thing as "meant to". There is no such thing as "natural course". Rather, living things exist without a pre-ordained plan for their existence, but simply try to make the best of their lives. If a bird finds a seed, it eats it. No question of whether it is meant to eat it. Living things living on opportunities like this.
Rather, the ability of us to act rules out the idea that such a state exists as living "naturally". Human genetics has given us the luck of having a large brain and good intelligence. Use it or lose it is a part of natural selection. The closest thing to a natural state is death. I don't suppose you argue that we should all commit suicide at birth, right?

The fact is, in an egotistical, arrogant fashion the key to human success, and the spread of the human gene line (Very inspiring idea for meaning of life, no? [:)]) is in our ability to invent. And if we don't use our big brain thing, we find ourselves outclassed by every species there is. While there is a certain maschocistical joy in being everyone else's doormat, I doubt that is a viable longer term path. Change is the only constant. Stagnation = death. Death != fun.

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by quantumcarl
I've never heard of Ephedra. There's good herbalists and there's bad herbalists... like anything in life. Eh Ephedra is one of the most popular suppliments for athletes/dieters. Its a stimulant that increases the metabolism (like a massive dose of caffiene) and it causes the body to lose the ability to regulate its temperature. It has killed several people due to extremely high body temperatures. The major league pitcher who died in spring training had something like a 108F body temp on a 75F day.

I've never heard of Lisine [;)]

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by russ_watters
Ephedra is one of the most popular suppliments for athletes/dieters. Its a stimulant that increases the metabolism (like a massive dose of caffiene) and it causes the body to lose the ability to regulate its temperature. It has killed several people due to extremely high body temperatures. The major league pitcher who died in spring training had something like a 108F body temp on a 75F day.

I've never heard of Lisine [;)]

From Lysine.net

"L-lysine is an amino acids with a pharmacological use much more specific than that of most other amino acids. So far, supplementation of l-lysine is one of the best options available for the treatment of herpes simplex virus infections, especially oral forms. L-lysine is also much cheaper than antiviral drugs such as Acyclovir. L-lysine supplementation works by tilting the balance between lysine and arginine heavily in favor of lysine. This ameliorates herpes outbreaks because the herpes virus depends on the presence of arginine for its replication.

Lysine in combination with arginine is used by bodybuilders for the combination's alleged effect of stimulating the release of growth hormone.



Lysine has also been shown to be useful in the prevention of atherosclerosis, a hardening of the walls of arteries caused by deposits of lipoproteins (fats). Lysine may be capable of loosening and preventing such deposits, therefore keeping artery walls flexible. Thus, there is less susceptibility for hypertension (high blood pressure). Hypertension is a major factor in heart attack and stroke."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~

Pretty cool huh. Its illegal in Canada.

The article doen't mention how it stops shingles... shingles is the dormant form of chicken pox. First you get chicken pox then the virus that causes it rests in your body for years afterwards.

Shingles pops up when the host of the virus is under severe stress. It exhibits as open sores along the nerve bundles through out the body.

Lysine looks like the amino acid the shingles virus eats but does not provide the nourishment of the actual required amino acid. The virus starves to death... its a similar process to the one that takes place with the herpes virus and it takes a very short period to heal up compared to any other treatment for shingles.

I mean, if you watched Dave Letterman, he was carrying that virus for months on his show.

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by quantumcarl
From Lysine.net.... Thanks. It sounds like it isn't an herbal remedy though. Is it just not yet approved in the US? What is its status?

[iron~orchid]

..........The major league pitcher who died in spring training had something like a 108F body temp on a 75F day.


It was also reported that he had double or more than the allowed dosage in his system when this happened. His CHOICE to take more of the product than was recommended and go out and stress his body in the hot sun.

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by russ_watters
Thanks. It sounds like it isn't an herbal remedy though. Is it just not yet approved in the US? What is its status?

The Republic of the United States had not banned the use of Lysine. There seems to be more of a Democratic approach to the sale and distribution of that amino acid than there is in Canada.

I remember scoring some from a nervous Health Food guy in canada. Imagine that... underground hippie health food dudes... vive la resistance!!!.

[iron~orchid]

Healing.

Healing is internal.

Healing is something that takes place from inside of you.

Medicine is something that is applied from the outside.

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by iron~orchid
Healing.

Healing is internal.

Healing is something that takes place from inside of you.

Medicine is something that is applied from the outside.

Yes... as a matter of fact this thread did start out with an intent to explore the possibilty of people being able to heal dis-orders with the "mind over matter" methodology.

so that... lacking Lysine or any other type of external application... one might be able to heal a wound or a diabetes attack or a psychosis perhaps even if they find themself stuck in the Gobi Desert without provisions.

There may be one or two people that can do this in the world. But... I have a feeling the main thrust and jist of the whole philosophy is to avoid ever having a wound... diabetes or psychosis. This can be achieved through the skillfull stylings of one's own lifestyle.

[iron~orchid]

It is time for scientists to stop creating things that do more and more of the physical body processes. Many scientists already know that thought creates reality, and that thought can cure.

However, everybody is making big money on machines and drugs and nobody has yet figured out how to charge money for thought.

The expensive equipment introduced invented by evolving man for use in the medical field is a massive control dynamic that enables people to avoid thought, and it will get bigger and more complex as long as people buy into the idea that anybody or anything is limited.

The choice is between swimming in our own cellular memory or being wired into a mechanical matrix of absolute limitation. Because our brain is holographic, our self knows how to help change the behavior that limits the body by bringing on illness and accidents, etc.

There is much scientific evidence that the human brain is holographic. Neurophysiologist Karl Pribram and physicist David Bohm came to this conclusion independently in the '70s.

Therefore, an injury in part of the brain can be healed, and a change in thought can change the overall pattern. Another part of the brain can even take over the function of damaged sections in some cases because the brain is is holographic -- each part reflecting the whole pattern.

Of course, once the physical body has been sufficiently damaged, then surgery can be a blessing, for saving a life continues the possibility of figuring out how to create with pure thought.

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by iron~orchid
It is time for scientists to stop creating things that do more and more of the physical body processes. Many scientists already know that thought creates reality, and that thought can cure.

However, everybody is making big money on machines and drugs and nobody has yet figured out how to charge money for thought.

The expensive equipment introduced invented by evolving man for use in the medical field is a massive control dynamic that enables people to avoid thought, and it will get bigger and more complex as long as people buy into the idea that anybody or anything is limited.

The choice is between swimming in our own cellular memory or being wired into a mechanical matrix of absolute limitation. Because our brain is holographic, our self knows how to help change the behavior that limits the body by bringing on illness and accidents, etc.

There is much scientific evidence that the human brain is holographic. Neurophysiologist Karl Pribram and physicist David Bohm came to this conclusion independently in the '70s.

Therefore, an injury in part of the brain can be healed, and a change in thought can change the overall pattern. Another part of the brain can even take over the function of damaged sections in some cases because the brain is is holographic -- each part reflecting the whole pattern.

Of course, once the physical body has been sufficiently damaged, then surgery can be a blessing, for saving a life continues the possibility of figuring out how to create with pure thought.

I agree Orchid... however... these conditions all come in tandem... first this... then that... first polio... then a vaccine... then bad vaccines... then a solution... then the solution is used in poor taste... then there is a solution to that...

I feel that the whole process is evolving toward what you are hoping for... which I believe is a time when people take full responsibility for their pain or suffering... or their anger or their joy... whatever......... at some point there will be a large number of people learning or practising the art of self healing...

I actually started this thread because i saw Wolverine in XMEN2 heal in a rapid manner. I thought... that looks absolutely possible... perhaps in another 3 or 4hundred years... eh?

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by iron~orchid
[BIt was also reported that he had double or more than the allowed dosage in his system when this happened. His CHOICE to take more of the product than was recommended and go out and stress his body in the hot sun. [/B] Its an herbal remedy. The "allowed dosage" is meaningless because the products haven't been adequately tested. And "hot sun"? 75F??? No.

Ephedra is unusual - most herbal remedies don't kill you. They just don't do anything at all. But I object because they a great many make fraudulent claims about what they do.

I agree Orchid... Agree with what, quantum? Iron's post made no sense whatsoever.

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by russ_watters
Its an herbal remedy. The "allowed dosage" is meaningless because the products haven't been adequately tested. And "hot sun"? 75F??? No.

Ephedra is unusual - most herbal remedies don't kill you. They just don't do anything at all. But I object because they a great many make fraudulent claims about what they do.

Agree with what, quantum? Iron's post made no sense whatsoever.

You may need to read it again.

consider this... the more we rely on automobiles to get us to the supermarket... the less our cardiovascular system gets a work out. The more we rely on the supermarket the less we learn to rely on ourselves and our gardening ability or our animal husbandery or our own trading skills. The more we rely on an MRI or Ultrasound indicator... the less we learn to listen or feel inside our bodies for dis=ease or dis-order... or imbalance.

There will always be a use for tools... for each individual... however... ultimately our body... including the mind... remains the most fundimental and foundational and most direct route toward healing what ails it.

If "herbal remedies", as you opinionate, "don't do anything"... then you will please explain why asprin... which is a simulation derivative of WILLOW BARK (a shamanic herbal remedy) is still a number one seller out of Bayer's. And you can go on and tell my why the YEW tree has provided the blueprint for simulated Tamoxifen, a major step in the right direction against breast cancer.

Next time you have a licorice candy and then feel the diertic effects and the adrenal boost from that root... tell me herbs have no effect on the endocrinal, cardiovascular and other systemic mechanisms of the body. Eh?

[6)]

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by quantumcarl
If "herbal remedies", as you opinionate, "don't do anything"... then you will please explain why asprin... which is a simulation derivative of WILLOW BARK (a shamanic herbal remedy) is still a number one seller out of Bayer's. Asprin is not, legally speaking, an "herbal remedy." Herbal remedies have special legal status that exempts them from the FDA oversight other drugs get, which means that there are no requirements that they do anything at all or even be safe. So if you look closely at a lot of these products, you will find that no scientific studies of their effectiveness have ever been done, much less, studies up to the standards of the FDA. Things like homeopathic medicines for example are simply sugar pills or salt water - placebos. Every now and then you see an add for "oxygenated water" which is tap water that has been shaken. Then there are ones that contain actual herbs with no known medicinal value. You can sell parsely as an herbal remedy if you want to - and claim just about anything you want about it - there is nothing to stop you.

Medicines that contain no medicine are one side of the coin. The other side is medicines that contain real medicines that haven't been tested and have no federal quality/safety/effectiveness oversight. This is why the "allowed dosage" thing on ephedra made me laugh - since no real medical studies have been done on the use of ephedra, there is no such thing as an "allowed dosage." Thats why its so scary - you have no way of knowing if even the dosage printed on the label is safe - indeed, since it hasn't been adequately tested, there is a good chance that it is *NOT* safe. Ephedra *IS* a real drug - its a stimulant similar to but far more powerful than caffeine. There is no reason why it shouldn't be held up to the same standards as asprin.

Then I guess there is a 3rd side to this coin: drugs that contain the same drugs as products not regulated as drugs. This one is just too ironic: Cigarettes are not regulated as drugs by the FDA but clearly they are hazardous to your health and contain substances that are considered drugs. Products designed to help you quit smoking such as nicotine gum, patches, and smokeless cigarettes contain the same amount (or less) nicotine as in cigarettes, but they are regulated as drugs. Too ironic.

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by russ_watters
Asprin is not, legally speaking, an "herbal remedy." Herbal remedies have special legal status that exempts them from the FDA oversight other drugs get, which means that there are no requirements that they do anything at all or even be safe. So if you look closely at a lot of these products, you will find that no scientific studies of their effectiveness have ever been done, much less, studies up to the standards of the FDA. Things like homeopathic medicines for example are simply sugar pills or salt water - placebos. Every now and then you see an add for "oxygenated water" which is tap water that has been shaken. Then there are ones that contain actual herbs with no known medicinal value. You can sell parsely as an herbal remedy if you want to - and claim just about anything you want about it - there is nothing to stop you.

Medicines that contain no medicine are one side of the coin. The other side is medicines that contain real medicines that haven't been tested and have no federal quality/safety/effectiveness oversight. This is why the "allowed dosage" thing on ephedra made me laugh - since no real medical studies have been done on the use of ephedra, there is no such thing as an "allowed dosage." Thats why its so scary - you have no way of knowing if even the dosage printed on the label is safe - indeed, since it hasn't been adequately tested, there is a good chance that it is *NOT* safe. Ephedra *IS* a real drug - its a stimulant similar to but far more powerful than caffeine. There is no reason why it shouldn't be held up to the same standards as asprin.

Then I guess there is a 3rd side to this coin: drugs that contain the same drugs as products not regulated as drugs. This one is just too ironic: Cigarettes are not regulated as drugs by the FDA but clearly they are hazardous to your health and contain substances that are considered drugs. Products designed to help you quit smoking such as nicotine gum, patches, and smokeless cigarettes contain the same amount (or less) nicotine as in cigarettes, but they are regulated as drugs. Too ironic.

I get your drift.

I guess there's no trusting anyone or what they say. Especially when they've been taught that all that matters is making a buck... and if you screw over a granny in the process... big deal.

Makes for very bad karma. I feel sorry for the little, irresponsible schysters.

[iron~orchid]

I have been taking a product that has Ephedrine for over three years and my body tells me if the dosage I allow myself is incorrect or not. I have better health during this time period that my past history. I have had the regular "medical" check ups and bloodwork done and they have come out with a better than healthy results each time. One doctor said, after reading my the results of my blood tests, "you're so healthy, it's sickening."

This Ephedra product is not intended as a cure for a disease, so why is it on the board for discussion of healing ?

It is important to have an appreciation of what is to be healed. Broadly speaking, perhaps all healing is the same because all illness is the same. At the same time, it makes some difference whether the focus of the healing is on a broken leg or on a broken leg that won't heal. Are you addressing the cancer or the harmful effects of the chemotherapy ? Are you treating depression ? Accident proneness ? An increased incidence of illness ? Anger and grief ? Not all physical illness is necessarily the result of some underlying trauma, but most physical illness has emotional trauma associated with it, and the emotional trauma can on occasion drive physical illness. It is also apparent that both physical and emotional illness can be driven by spiritual disease.

A patient has to find a deep-seated commitment to his or her own healing as this is a huge piece of the process. Without that, many healings cannot occur. This is the first hurdle a patient must jump over on the road to recovery or prevention of illness.

It is also helpful to have some understanding of the mechanics of the illness or injury. Despite my own desire to believe one walks across water simply by virtue of one's own "can do" belief, we live in a cause-and-effect world, at least on some level, and healing has cause-and-effect attributes and consequences. So it is helpful to know that a cancer of this or that type has this or that origin, has this or that expected course, or this or that expected end result. And I believe it is also helpful to know how medicine would treat that particular illness or injury or disease.

It is important to have an appreciation of where a person is spiritually and emotionally if encouraging self-healing. The healing process is a great opportunity for patients to do spiritual inventory and take steps to promote their own understanding and faith, to examine some of the larger emotional based processes that drive their life, and understand the energetic consequences of those processes and what role they play in life. Those whoese lives tend to be based on fear or sex or possessions all ahve different outlooks on life, and all are driven by different intentions.

The format for healing is critical. What is the instrumentality that does the healing ? Healing can take all sorts of forms, and we have to be careful not to limit our understanding of healing to a traditional medicine-based or Western model.

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by iron~orchid
I have been taking a product that has Ephedrine for over three years and my body tells me if the dosage I allow myself is incorrect or not. I have better health during this time period that my past history. I have had the regular "medical" check ups and bloodwork done and they have come out with a better than healthy results each time. One doctor said, after reading my the results of my blood tests, "you're so healthy, it's sickening."

This Ephedra product is not intended as a cure for a disease, so why is it on the board for discussion of healing ?

It is important to have an appreciation of what is to be healed. Broadly speaking, perhaps all healing is the same because all illness is the same. At the same time, it makes some difference whether the focus of the healing is on a broken leg or on a broken leg that won't heal. Are you addressing the cancer or the harmful effects of the chemotherapy ? Are you treating depression ? Accident proneness ? An increased incidence of illness ? Anger and grief ? Not all physical illness is necessarily the result of some underlying trauma, but most physical illness has emotional trauma associated with it, and the emotional trauma can on occasion drive physical illness. It is also apparent that both physical and emotional illness can be driven by spiritual disease.

A patient has to find a deep-seated commitment to his or her own healing as this is a huge piece of the process. Without that, many healings cannot occur. This is the first hurdle a patient must jump over on the road to recovery or prevention of illness.

It is also helpful to have some understanding of the mechanics of the illness or injury. Despite my own desire to believe one walks across water simply by virtue of one's own "can do" belief, we live in a cause-and-effect world, at least on some level, and healing has cause-and-effect attributes and consequences. So it is helpful to know that a cancer of this or that type has this or that origin, has this or that expected course, or this or that expected end result. And I believe it is also helpful to know how medicine would treat that particular illness or injury or disease.

It is important to have an appreciation of where a person is spiritually and emotionally if encouraging self-healing. The healing process is a great opportunity for patients to do spiritual inventory and take steps to promote their own understanding and faith, to examine some of the larger emotional based processes that drive their life, and understand the energetic consequences of those processes and what role they play in life. Those whoese lives tend to be based on fear or sex or possessions all ahve different outlooks on life, and all are driven by different intentions.

The format for healing is critical. What is the instrumentality that does the healing ? Healing can take all sorts of forms, and we have to be careful not to limit our understanding of healing to a traditional medicine-based or Western model.

Yes, Iron Orchid... that's how I see it. If one is in touch with one's bodily process one will understand how much of anything it needs to stay fit or return to a good level of fitness.

Its when the patient thinks they have no clue as to the requirements of their body that they will fall prone to overdoses or singular opinions of a certain professional group or interest.

Like we have surmised, so far, we as humans have always had an innate understanding of what to do when our body is injured or in distress. Like an animal we have the ability to take the path of least resistance toward the balance required to continue our life... or to discontiue it... accordingly. Thanks !-)

[starnight]

Hi I read some messages in this thread, and I wanted to ask a question: what could be the psychological/physics-al/methaphysical cause of Rsds know also as Sudek's atrophy?
Thanks to everyone, any input appreciated, as I'm fighting it
Starnight
Italy