A potentially retarded question.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the speed of sound, its relationship to particle motion, and the implications of relativistic effects. Participants explore theoretical scenarios regarding sound propagation in different media, including dense materials and subatomic particles, while also touching on concepts like the Doppler effect.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the speed limit of sound, suggesting that sound is a transfer of energy between particles and wonders if it could theoretically exceed the speed of light under certain conditions.
  • Another participant asserts that the speed of sound cannot exceed the speed of light, as it is mediated by electromagnetic forces.
  • A participant notes that the speed of sound varies with the density of the medium and emphasizes that particles do move, creating sound waves through oscillation.
  • Several participants pose questions about the speed of sound within a proton, seeking to understand how quickly a disturbance would propagate through such a small particle.
  • One participant raises philosophical questions about the nature of particles, such as electrons and protons, and their visibility, while also discussing the Doppler effect in relation to sound and light sources.
  • A participant provides a comparison of the speed of sound and the speed of molecules in air, citing specific values for both.
  • There is a discussion about the accuracy of statements regarding the Doppler frequency changes for sound and light, with some participants agreeing on the truth of these statements while others challenge them.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the speed of sound and its theoretical limits, with some agreeing that sound cannot exceed the speed of light, while others explore hypothetical scenarios. The discussion on the Doppler effect also reveals differing opinions on the accuracy of specific statements.

Contextual Notes

Some claims about the speed of sound and its relationship to particle motion depend on definitions and assumptions that are not fully explored in the discussion. Additionally, the implications of relativistic effects on sound are not resolved.

Dissonance in E
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What's the speed limit for sound? As I understand sound itself is not composed of particles that move themselves but a transfer of energy between particles which then oscillate and produce the sound phenomenon. If so do relativistic changes affect sound moving at high rates at all, as there really is no single particle that sound is contributed to. Could sound theoretically travel faster than light does in a vaccuum, under correct circumstances? Obviously sound can't travel in a vacuum but I'm thinking some super dense material.

I hope this wasn't a question with some trivial, fairly obvious answer. ehehe..
Any educated replies will be much appreciated.
 
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Partial answer: Ultimately, the transfer of energy between the molecules in the acoustic medium is mediated by electromagnetic forces, so the speed of sound cannot exceed the speed of light.
 
The speed limit varies for sound as does the density of the medium. The particles do move. They wiggle. In space called a wave. In time, a vibration.
 
Another potentially retarded question: How fast is the speed of sound in one proton? If I push on one side of the proton how long will it take before the opposite side moves in that direction?
 
PatPwnt said:
Another potentially retarded question: How fast is the speed of sound in one proton? If I push on one side of the proton how long will it take before the opposite side moves in that direction?
:cry:
 
You speak of philosophical concepts as if material. Can we "see" an electron? Not ever.
A proton? Same answer.

Is this true? The Doppler frequency change made by you going away from a sound source is the same as the shift made by the sound source going away from you.

Is this true? The Doppler frequency change made by you going away from a light source
is the same as the shift made by the light source going away from you.

Understand the correct answers and maybe you will zero in somewhat on your problem.
I am trying to get these concepts figured out myself.
 
Note that speed of sound is slower than the speed of molecules. For air at around 20 degreees centrigrage, the speed of the molecules is 502m/s while the speed of sound is 343m/s. Then there's alway wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound
 
Is this true? The Doppler frequency change made by you going away from a sound source is the same as the shift made by the sound source going away from you.

Is this true? The Doppler frequency change made by you going away from a light source
is the same as the shift made by the light source going away from you.


The first statement is false and the second true.
 

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