Mass spectograph and mass of particles

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves using a mass spectrograph to determine the mass of an unknown element based on its circular path radius compared to that of 12/6 Carbon. The original poster attempts to relate centripetal force and electromagnetic force to derive the mass-to-charge ratio.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the relationship between mass, charge, and radius in the context of the mass spectrograph. There are attempts to equate forces and derive ratios, with some participants questioning the calculations and assumptions made by the original poster.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with some participants providing insights into the ratios involved and questioning the original poster's calculations. There is acknowledgment that the problem can be solved, but clarity on the steps remains elusive for the original poster.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the figures used may not be accurate, and there is mention of needing to make educated assumptions to progress in solving the problem. The original poster expresses difficulty in understanding the fundamental concepts involved.

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Homework Statement


A mass spectograph is used to identify some element and 12/6 Carbon is used as a reference. 12C has a circular path of radius = 5cm. The particle of the unknown element is traveling at the same velocity as the 12C. What is the mass of one atom of the unknown element if the unknown element has a circular path radius of 10cm?
(The figures may be off because I made up this question basing on other questions to improve my understanding of mass/charge ratio)

Homework Equations


Centripetal force = mv^2/r
Elect. F = Bvq
Mass/charge ratio


The Attempt at a Solution


Firstly I made centripetal force equal Elct. F:
mv^2/r = Bvq
Using algebra:
Bvqr = mv^2
Bqr/v = mv
B/v = m/qr

The mass/charge ratio of 12C = 12/6 = 2

As the two things are traveling at same velocity in same magnetic field (B),
m/qr = m/qr
2/0.05 = m/qr
40 = m/qr
40 x 0.08 = m/q
3.2 = m/q

This is where I am stuck. I don't fully understand the relationship between m and q and other things that may be involved! I cannot really see a way around this - and this is precisely why I made this question up. I don't understand the basics but can do generic questions because I've practised solving general questions...

Please help!
 
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Right - folks, I have checked with my Physics teacher and he says this question is possible - i.e. it can be solved!

I am still stuck! He says we have to make a very educated jump from this part to the next! Any ideas??

And I guess I could ask him this question but I don't understand when he explains things... :(
 
For any of you who wanted to know, you just had to find the ratio between the two - they were very specific ratios and allowed the lowest one to be 14/6 and then you just had to times 14 by the mass of proton to get mass of proton and neutron and times 6 by the mass of electron.
 
m/q = 3.2 you said you got, now that is 16/5.

I am not sure if that is correct, I got ratio 4 of mass and q.

you did:

40 = m/qr
40 x 0.08 = m/q
3.2 = m/q

but the radius of the unknown was 10cm, i,e 0.1m.. you should get 4, the same as I got.
 
Oh I used different figures - figures that worked well. So yeah, that's why I got a different number.
 

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