Heat Surge "Amish-made" fireplace

[Ivan Seeking]

We were already using all electric heat in this house. With the Roll-n-Glow Fireplace, I believe we still saved money last winter. In a very short time the room heats to the comfort wanted, quietly and cheaper! It's paid for itself already!

Rolls Anywhere
Slash Heat Bills
Christmas Rush Forces Household
Limit of 2
Only Uses about 8¢ Electricity an Hour on standard setting
Heat Surge Miracle Heaters Given Away Free with Order of Handmade Amish Fireplace Mantle

http://www.heatsurgetv.com/

Essentially anywhere there's an outlet you can place a Roll-n-Glow electric fireplace. Perfect for any house, apartment, condo, dorm, mobile home, cottage, office, hotel, or garage
http://www.heatsurge.com/images/cherry-07.jpg
http://www.heatsurge.com/

The problem? These sell for up to $587.00 but are just a 1500 watt electric heater plus the fancy "Amish-made" cabinet.

A 1500 watt electric heater like this sells at Walmart for less than $14.00

http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/02/98/37/79/0002983779257_215X215.jpg
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7768641

Note that the Heat Surge cited maximum of 5110 BTUs, is just 1498 watts.

[Proton Soup]

the first one looks warmer. and it's pretty.

the targeted consumer is probably shut-ins/elderly. :|

[Denton]

No one knows more about electric devices than the Amish.

[ChrisPugh]

Heat Surge is an established company with millions of satisfied customers whose focus is to exceed customer expectations.

To accomplish this, along with other successful methods, we’ve set up a Web site to share the facts about our company at http://heatsurge.wordpress.com to address any questions or concerns you may have.

Chris Pugh
Heat Surge

[Ivan Seeking]

True or false: You can get the same amount of heat from a $15 electric heater from Walmart?

[mgb_phys]

True or false: You can get the same amount of heat from a $15 electric heater from Walmart?
Yes, but this one does also raise barns for you

[FredGarvin]

Looks like you hooked a troll Ivan.

Wooow. 5000 BTU's? That's a lot of BTUs.......isn't it? That a lot of thousands of BTU thingies.

Taking advantage of the general public's stupidity is obviously a viable business practice still. This goes right up there with marketing 2 HP shop vacs for 110V use.

If I were dead set on giving there web site a hit, I'd love to see what the cabinets are made out of. Do the Amish raise particle board barns now a days?

[Greg Bernhardt]

The video on the website is just flat out ridiculous.

[Math Is Hard]

the first one looks warmer. and it's pretty.

the targeted consumer is probably shut-ins/elderly. :|

I was just about to say I liked it. :redface:
I feel old. :frown:

No one knows more about electric devices than the Amish.

:rofl:

[turbo]

I won't even bother checking the web-site. I've seen their print ads and they are just a bunch of scammers, fleecing the ignorant. In our area, electricity is by far the most expensive way to heat a house and the climate is such that 5000 BTU would be like throwing a hot-dog to a hungry lion.

Edit: How do you get a "heat surge" out of a cheap 5000 btu resistive heater? The name itself is ridiculous.

[Evo]

I had one like this for the bathroom at my old house. It was from Home Depot.

It was basically decorative, but it's also a space heater.

[turbo]

I could get more heat by dragging out my tube amp and playing guitar for a while. All those tubes throw a bit of heat. I used to own a Peavey Classic 30 that got really hot - like the old Vox amps, it was a single-ended design that was dissipating power at max even when it was idling. At least I would be getting the side-benefit of guitar practice.

[russ_watters]

Cheezy marketing for sure, but spot heating most certainly does save energy.

With the price, though, buying it for looks is the better bet.

[Ivan Seeking]

Cheezy marketing for sure, but spot heating most certainly does save energy.

It might be fair to sell it as a decorative item, but zone heating can be accomplished using any 1500 watt [electric] heater. If the intent is to save money, the last thing one needs is a fancy $200-$500+ cabinet enclosing an otherwise cheap heater.

[Ivan Seeking]

This goes right up there with marketing 2 HP shop vacs for 110V use.

These rating are often obtained by increasing the voltage to the motor until the point that it self-destructs. The power rating is obtained just before it bursts into flames, or smokes. That is the "peak HP".

[mgb_phys]

This goes right up there with marketing 2 HP shop vacs for 110V use.
I just bought a 300W UPS that is also labeled 650VA

[turbo]

I just bought a 300W UPS that is also labeled 650VAWow! Isn't the 2-gauge power cable a bit stiff?

[mgb_phys]

I was mainly wondering what shape the sine wave output would have to be for that to add up.

[turbo]

I don't need no steenkin' heat surge. I'll just plug in my wife's hair dryer and point it at my feet to warm up.

[Phrak]

I was mainly wondering what shape the sine wave output would have to be for that to add up.

We can guess...

300W should be the output rating (why not in VA?). 650VA could be the peak VA requirements during line drop-out conditions.


I can't wait for summer when I can by my Amish Frost Bite richy appointed in shimmering icicles.

[russ_watters]

Taking advantage of the general public's stupidity is obviously a viable business practice still. This goes right up there with marketing 2 HP shop vacs for 110V use. I must be missing something here. 2 HP is 1660 W, assuming a 90% efficient motor (and assuming that a 2hp motor actually provides 2 HP when attached to a vacuum cleaner - there is no reason to expect that it must). That's easily within the range of a household circuit.

[russ_watters]

I just bought a 300W UPS that is also labeled 650VA Hmm - that seems pretty common. Wonder what tha's about.

[mgb_phys]

I must be missing something here. 2 HP is 1660 W, assuming a 90% efficient motor (and assuming that a 2hp motor actually provides 2 HP when attached to a vacuum cleaner - there is no reason to expect that it must). That's easily within the range of a household circuit.

(1660W/0.9)/110V = 16.75A aren't 110V circuits 15A in the US?

[Ivan Seeking]

(1660W/0.9)/110V = 16.75A aren't 110V circuits 15A in the US?

Not only that, many so called 2 HP vacs are only rated at 6-10 amps, at 110VAC. [I did time in a vacuum store while in college].

I think I've seen the 2HP Peak rating on motors that use as little as 4.5 amps, at 110VAC.

[Phrak]

Taking advantage of the general public's stupidity is obviously a viable business practice still. This goes right up there with marketing 2 HP shop vacs for 110V use.

Electrical service, outlets and power cords are rated in amps. The common household outlet is 15 amps. It could be fused for less. 117V*15A > 2HP.

Motors are rated in HP and duty. It could be still be a 10 HP shop vac rated at 100% duty, if their were such animals, and be fine running off a household outlet. The pump just cant load the motor over 2HP--for very long.

[Proton Soup]

i think 15A is a common breaker size now for wall outlet circuits. in the past, larger size fuses may have been used. few enough and large enough to be fire hazards.

wall outlets in an actual "shop" in a commercial building may be another story, though. do we have an electrician in the house?

[Phrak]

From CTV British Columbia

http://winnipeg.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20080924/BC_olsen_amish_smart_photo_080924?hub=BritishColum biaVideo

"---despite the headline --these heaters are not made by the Amish: they're made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood mantle is made by Amish craftsmen."

I'm outraged. I want my electronics made by Amish, and my woodwork done in China.

[turbo]

I'm outraged. I want my electronics made by Amish, and my woodwork done in China.Me, too. And I want the UL labels to be counterfeited by Native American printing shops.

[Ivan Seeking]

Motors are rated in HP and duty. It could be still be a 10 HP shop vac rated at 100% duty, if their were such animals, and be fine running off a household outlet. The pump just cant load the motor over 2HP--for very long.

It is still meaningless if they don't cite the voltage at which the peak HP is reached.

Also, to be rated for 10 HP, the plate rated maximum current would be exceedingly high [on the order of 70 amps], which you never see.

[turbo]

10 HP on a 120V residential circuit? Let go of my leg, scammer!!!

[Ivan Seeking]

The video on the website is just flat out ridiculous.

Note that in the video at heatsurgetv, they state: "Don't be fooled by glorified space heaters".

Those would be the ones that sell for $14 to $50, or so, and produce just as much heat.

[maze]

http://www.heatsurgetv.com/


http://www.heatsurge.com/images/cherry-07.jpg
http://www.heatsurge.com/

The problem? These sell for up to $587.00 but are just a 1500 watt electric heater plus the fancy "Amish-made" cabinet.

A 1500 watt electric heater like this sells at Walmart for less than $14.00

http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/02/98/37/79/0002983779257_215X215.jpg
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7768641

Note that the Heat Surge cited maximum of 5110 BTUs, is just 1498 watts.

The two products aren't comparable. Walmart is selling a heater, strictly designed for that function. On the other hand, this amish company is selling a furniture piece, and oh yeah it can also heat your house. I'm sure there are lots of people out there who would pay $500 for a hand-crafted amish cabnet without the heater.

[Ivan Seeking]

The two products aren't comparable. Walmart is selling a heater, strictly designed for that function. On the other hand, this amish company is selling a furniture piece, and oh yeah it can also heat your house. I'm sure there are lots of people out there who would pay $500 for a hand-crafted amish cabnet without the heater.

The point is:

We were already using all electric heat in this house. With the Roll-n-Glow Fireplace, I believe we still saved money last winter. In a very short time the room heats to the comfort wanted, quietly and cheaper! It's paid for itself already!

Rolls Anywhere
Slash Heat Bills
Christmas Rush Forces Household
Limit of 2
Only Uses about 8¢ Electricity an Hour on standard setting

As I said, it may be fair to sell it as a decorative item. But if one wants to save money, this is not the way to go. You will get the same cost benefit by zone heating with any 1500 watt electric heater. The fact that they state, "Don't be fooled by glorified space heaters" while showing photos of inexpensive heaters that provide just as much heat, is extremely misleading. Fooled? How is one being fooled? Who is fooling whom?

[Phrak]

"Don't be fooled by glorified space heaters" while showing photos of inexpensive heaters that provide just as much heat, is extremely misleading.

That is an interesting piece of datum. I'll have to listen for it. It begs the question:

"How can a blantantly contrafactual statement, such as that, be good advertising?"

Billy Mase (oxyclean and other stuff) has a voice like fingernails on a blackboard, yet his voice is good advertising. Is there a connection?

[FredGarvin]

These rating are often obtained by increasing the voltage to the motor until the point that it self-destructs. The power rating is obtained just before it bursts into flames, or smokes. That is the "peak HP".That is my point. They are not rated for continuous power which the average person would assume it is. While 2 HP is just under the limit for a standard 15A service, I don't know of many homes that have a completely free circuit to plug into. You pull 2HP through a 15A circuit, you'll blow the breaker.

[mheslep]

Hmm - that seems pretty common. Wonder what tha's about.
Power Factor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor

[xykotik]

i think 15A is a common breaker size now for wall outlet circuits. in the past, larger size fuses may have been used. few enough and large enough to be fire hazards.

wall outlets in an actual "shop" in a commercial building may be another story, though. do we have an electrician in the house?

Wall outlets in the USA that have the conventional two vertical slots are limited to 15A, whether in a shop or not. You can have a 20A circuit however. The plug has one vertical and one horizontal blade. The 20A outlet has one vertical slot and one "tee" slot so it can accept devices rated for either current limit. Beyond 20A, there are many sizes/shapes/flavors depending on voltage/current/phases, which is why I usually end up buying the wrong pigtail for a new (non-amish) dryer.

Now that I have butted-in to your forum... This looks like a fun place. Can I stay and play?

I had a little comment about Heat-Scourge fireplaces. My 83y/o dad bought one last year from a USSA-Today ad, against my advice. He was impressed by the claimed enery savings. I was impressed with the huge uninsulated barn they were building them in instead of a workshop, and the fact that several of the electric units seemed to be operating.

Fortunately, they took it back (incl. shipping) without a problem. All of the arguments against this thing are clear to the people here, but here's a little icing. The unit does look really nice, kind of like the ones at Home Repot and Crustco for half the price. It is laminated plywood with what looks like a polyurathane finish (organically grown by the amish I'm sure.) It weighs little, and has tiny wheels that will bury themselves in the shallowest pile carpet. We never plugged it in, but you can imagine what the "flame" must have looked like anyway.

Other than the "amish made" (don't go all lawyer about who made the heaters vs mantles) and "energy savings" claims, the most insulting blow is the size of the thing. To quote a famous musician, "it was in danger of being trod upon by dwarves!" If you see their current TV spots, you'll see what I mean. In every scene, they are careful to make sure that all people (mostly children) are always sitting on the floor next to it, because the arm of the(empty) couch next to it is TALLER than the thing! Even the "dad" is taller while on his hands and knees!

These people score marketing points, but with me they ethically rank up there with the guy who wanted to sell me 200-Tesla (not a typo) magnets that would remove impurities from my house water and make it more healthy by "polarizing" it.

[Ivan Seeking]

Now that I have butted-in to your forum... This looks like a fun place. Can I stay and play?

Please do! Do you know any good Amish games?

[xykotik]

Please do! Do you know any good Amish games?

Well, there's Pin the Tail on the Mule, Music-less Chairs, and Hangman is popular among teens.

[Greg Bernhardt]

Just saw they had a full page ad in USA Today a few days ago.

[TVP45]

Although I agree wholeheartedly this is a fancy, small space heater, does anybody else on here live near Amish? If so, look at the people in the ads. Do the clothes colors look right to you?

[rerubin]

True or false: You can get the same amount of heat from a $15 electric heater from Walmart?


True. And the commercials showing bearded Amish hand-assembling these units is false as well. These are made in factories.

And they will not save you money unless you shut off your main heat in other rooms of your house.

A classic rip off.

[stewartcs]

Power Factor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor

That's a really low PF for a UPS. Most newer ones are around 0.9. Sounds like mgb bought a cheap UPS! :smile:

CS

[stewartcs]

And they will not save you money unless you shut off your main heat in other rooms of your house.


It would actually cost you more money to shut of your heat pump and run these electric heaters.

CS

[mgb_phys]

That's a really low PF for a UPS. Most newer ones are around 0.9. Sounds like mgb bought a cheap UPS! :smile:
Hey, it was nearly $50!
It kept the PC alive during our regular winter brown outs and it powered the cable modem + wireless for an hour when the power went out, so I could stay on PF from my laptop.

I don't understand why they don't quote the actual amp-hours of the battery though - except it would allow a fair comparison of the products.

[jacksonpeeble]

I see these ads all over, and I personally think that these should be allowed to continue simply because I find it so humorous and amusing (also, at least there isn't any false information).

Besides the fact that the Amish are really into the whole electronics thing, I find the concept hilarious. I can picture people at home...

"Mom - My room's really cold... could you please wheel in the fireplace?"

Plus, it'd be great to just have a fireplace in the middle of a room, with no chimney or anything, wouldn't it? Guests would be fascinated. ;-)

It scares me that these things must sell, though; otherwise, the company wouldn't have the cash to keep publicizing themselves.

[jacksonpeeble]

Hey, it was nearly $50!
It kept the PC alive during our regular winter brown outs and it powered the cable modem + wireless for an hour when the power went out, so I could stay on PF from my laptop.

I don't understand why they don't quote the actual amp-hours of the battery though - except it would allow a fair comparison of the products.

My UPS cost way more than that...

Of course, I'm running a small data center. ;-)

[WhoWee]

Maybe the Amish should start working with the guys that make corn cob fueled heaters...makes more sense.

[bkp_tech]

- On BTU based calculation, Gas heat 80% efficient (BTU) are at least 2 times cheaper than Electric heat 100% efficiency (BTU).
- Normal home electrical outlet(15A) can produce max 15x110=1650 watts max at 100% efficiency.
- This heater is not hand made by Amish. May be China has Amish population. In short I do not understand what is the purpose of such claim.

[Nicodemus]

Well, ignoring the claims of perfect efficiency which would imply that the Amish recently became involved in the production of antimatter, it just sounds like an electric heater.

More telling perhaps, is that nearly every review for it I've found, from Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Heat-Surge-Fireplace-Amish-Mantle/dp/B001O4CTTQ to others were "1 star" with the fond hope that soon negative stars would be forthcoming. So, the claim is to fool gullible people and to use marketing buzzworks to reel them in, oooooold trick.

[SkyHooks]

My neighbor has two of these "Amish Fireplaces". Last night she mentioned that the plugs were hot to the touch. I went over to her house to check them. One plug had melted to the outlet and the other showed melting damage. Previous posts have mentioned that these are rated for using only a few hours at a time, yet people plug them into outlets and leave them on all winter.