Understanding the Concept of Absolute in Physics: Is Perfection a Requirement?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Antonio Lao
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Absolute Means
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of "absolute" in physics, exploring its implications and whether it necessitates perfection or totality. Participants examine various contexts in which the term is used, including absolute temperature, absolute space, and absolute time, and consider the relationship between absoluteness and transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that "absolute" implies something that remains unchanged under transformation.
  • Others question whether the term "absolute" can be understood without specific context, suggesting that different uses (e.g., absolute temperature vs. absolute value) may not be directly related.
  • One participant mentions the importance of symmetry in understanding absoluteness and suggests that invariance is necessary for extracting useful information from a system.
  • Another participant raises the issue of whether perturbations to an "absolute" state during transformation still allow for invariance, indicating a need for further clarification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the concept of "absolute" requires contextual definition, but multiple competing views remain regarding its implications and applications in different areas of physics.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of "absolute" in various contexts, and the relationship between different forms of absoluteness remains unresolved.

Antonio Lao
Messages
1,436
Reaction score
1
In physics, when we say that something is absolute does this means that the something is perfect? Something is total? Something is a quantum? Something is a constant? Something is unchanging? Something is motionless? Something is eternal?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
When something is said to be absolute it usually means it remains the same under transformation.
 
jcsd,

I know of three basic transformations: translation, rotation and scaling. Do you mean all of these and some more that I don't know about?
 
I'm not sure if 'absolute' means much without defining it in the current context. For instance, does "absolute temperature" relate in any way to "absolute value"?

Matt
 
I think that Symmetry is the main concept that is related to your questions.

If we want to get some useful information out of our explored system, we also need some invariant system (some law) which is related to the measured system.

But, in my opinion, any research must include also our own abilities to research as a legal part of any research.
 
I'm with baffledMatt. I think the concept of "absolute" needs a context to be properly understood. Absolute space and absolute time are other two examples that have little to do with "absolute temperature" and "absolute value".
 
jcsd said:
When something is said to be absolute it usually means it remains the same under transformation.

Your statement is clear enough , but does it include perturbations to the "absolute" during transformation yet completing the transformaion in an invariant state?

Thanks.
 

Similar threads

High School Does Energy Exist as a Physical Entity or Merely a Mathematical Concept?
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
4K
Undergrad Different conceptions of pop physics
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
Graduate What are really brilliant physics students capable of?
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Undergrad Should I have studied E&M before learning Optics, Waves & Oscillations
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
Graduate Physics - Description is description
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
Undergrad Understanding the historical shift away from absolute simultaneity
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
2K
High School Traveling through space at zero km/s
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
Undergrad What does "exist" mean to a physicist? somt
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Is the criteria for the present perfect tense in Warriner's textbook inadequate?
  • · Replies 40 ·
2
Replies
40
Views
7K
Undergrad Is acceleration a more absolute/fundamental quantity in the universe?
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K