How is energy stored in particles: potential, kinetic, and beyond?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of energy storage in particles, specifically focusing on potential and kinetic energy, and how these concepts relate to matter and light. Participants explore various interpretations and implications of energy, including its visualization and theoretical underpinnings.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how energy is stored in terms of particles, suggesting it may relate to particle vibration or separation.
  • Another participant presents energy as a bookkeeping concept, emphasizing its conservation and the analogy of mass-energy equivalence.
  • Some participants argue that energy can be perceived in everyday phenomena, such as wind and lightning, challenging the notion that it is purely abstract.
  • There is a discussion on the historical evolution of the concept of energy, with one participant noting that new forms of energy have been added to maintain conservation principles.
  • A claim is made that the unique energy in the universe is that of light, with implications regarding the speed of light and its relation to mass-energy equivalence.
  • Another participant connects the speed of light to the permittivity and permeability of free space, suggesting a mathematical perspective on energy.
  • Some participants express philosophical views on the concept of "the energy of light," while others provide practical examples of its effects, such as a laser burning metal.
  • A question is raised about the energy dynamics of mass traveling at the speed of light, leading to a clarification that mass cannot travel at that speed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of energy, with some agreeing on the conceptual aspects while others contest the interpretations and implications of energy, particularly regarding light and mass. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of energy and its forms, as well as the implications of mass-energy equivalence. The discussion also touches on the philosophical aspects of energy, which may not align with strictly physical interpretations.

Curious6
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I know this question may sound a bit basic, but it is actually quite interesting. We know the two forms of energy are potential energy and kinetic energy, and that these forms of energy can be in many forms (e.g. thermal energy, elastic potential energy, gravitational potential energy...). However, what I don't really understand is, how is this energy actually stored? By this I mean, for example, how is kinetic and potential energy stored in terms of particles. Has it got to do with the amount of vibration or the separation between the particles? Also, if matter is equivalent to energy is matter therefore a form of energy? I'm sorry if it sounds confusing but I just find energy a really hard concept to visualise, it's not something easy to visualise such as matter. I would appreciate any help given.
 
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If you don't wish to visualize it, you don't have to. I prefer to think of energy as a bookkeeping concept. No one has seen energy, or felt it, etc. In fact, you might even say we concocted the concept in such a way that it always appears conserved. For example, when matter disappears in a reaction and kinetic energy is gained by the surrounding particles, we notice the relationship between mass and released energy and set m = E/c2 so that it appears energy only changes form. However, it provides such a conveniant analogy that one would be hardpressed to overlook it. By using concepts of energy we can avoid manipulating the time variable and therefore skirt issues in problems that would otherwise require being dealt with more upfront. Also, one look at a potential function graph can almost immediatly give an idea of the motion of a body.
 
you feel energy and see it in every day life , the movement of the winds , lightning, etc
thats my only quam with wat you said suffian
 
I agree completely with suffian. The history of "energy" has been that we keep adding new kinds of energy in order to maintain "conservation of energy"! Including, with the advent of relativity, considering mass as a kind of energy!
 
The unique energy existing in the universe is energy of light. It as the speed of light absolute too. All other speeds and energy are relative. They are consequence of properties of light. It is not casual that value of speed of light is present at the mass- energy relation.

Michael.
 
Actually that c comes from Permittivity and permeability of free space... electromagnetism stuff. It is also not casual that e is every where as well. If anything you're describing things in a very mathematical sense.
 
Agreed. To follow up on your argument, you could replace c with [tex]/epsilon[/tex] and [tex]/mu[{tex], et voila: you have those two popping up in every other equation.<br /> "The energy of light" sounds almost philosophical.[/tex]
 
Moe said:
Agreed. To follow up on your argument, you could replace c with [tex]/epsilon[/tex] and [tex]/mu[{tex], et voila: you have those two popping up in every other equation.<br /> "The energy of light" sounds almost philosophical.[/tex]
[tex] “The energy of light” looks not philosophically when the beam of laser burns metal, for example.[/tex]
 
When traveling at c, does mass gain or loose energy?

Theoretically speaking of course.
 
  • #10
Imparcticle said:
When traveling at c, does mass gain or loose energy?

Theoretically speaking of course.
Mass can't travel at c. This is privilege of light only.
 

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