I don't understand the equation for angular momentum?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the equation for angular momentum, specifically the expression \( L = r \cdot mv \) as compared to linear momentum. Participants explore the relationship between angular momentum, moment of inertia, and kinetic energy in both linear and rotational motion.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why angular momentum is defined as \( r \cdot mv \) instead of just \( mv \), drawing parallels to linear momentum.
  • One participant explains that angular momentum must align with other physics concepts, comparing kinetic energy in linear motion to that in circular motion, leading to the expression \( \frac{1}{2} m r^2 \omega^2 \).
  • Another participant states that angular momentum for a point mass can be expressed as \( \omega I \), where \( I \) is the moment of inertia, and provides the relationship \( I = mr^2 \) for a point mass.
  • There is a mention of the conservation of angular momentum in closed systems, contrasting it with kinetic energy, which may not be conserved if the radius changes.
  • Some participants refer to the historical context of Kepler's law of areas and its relation to momentum, noting that the conservation of \( m r^2 \omega \) is significant in this discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and agreement regarding the definitions and implications of angular momentum and moment of inertia, but no consensus is reached on the foundational concepts or their interpretations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence of angular momentum on the definitions of moment of inertia and the conditions under which these quantities are conserved, but these aspects remain unresolved.

kashiark
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Why is it r*mv instead of just mv like "normal," linear momentum?
 
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kashiark said:
Why is it r*mv instead of just mv like "normal," linear momentum?

To be of any use the definition of angular momentum must slot in with other areas of physics.

Look at the following comparison:
In linear motion kinetic energy is [itex]\frac{1}{2} m v^2[/itex]
In the case of motion along a circle with radius r the following relation applies: [itex]v = \omega r[/itex] where [itex]\omega[/itex] is angular velocity.
In the expression for linear kinetic energy the 'v' can be substituted with [itex]\omega r[/itex] and you get:

[tex]\frac{1}{2} m \omega^2 r^2[/tex]

Which is usually rearranged to group [itex]mr^2[/itex] together

[tex]\frac{1}{2} m r^2 \omega^2[/tex]

The produkt of 'm' and 'r2' is called 'moment of inertia', it can be thought of as the rotational counterpart of linear inertia.

by defining angular momentum as [itex]mr^2 \omega[/itex] Kepler's law of areas is recovered; read http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~vawter/PhysicsNet/Topics/Gravity/SecondLawDerivation.html"

Cleonis
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ah, ok; I think I get it. Thanks!
 
momentum is inertia x velocity.

For linear movement, inertia = mass, so linear momentum = mass x velocity.

For angular movment, angular momentum = ω I, where ω is rate of rotation, and I is the angular inertia. For a point mass, angular inertia is m r2. Other inertias are listed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_moments_of_inertia

For a point mass I = m r2.

The linear velocity: v = ω r, so ω = v / r

Angular momentum for a point mass = ω I = (v/r) m r2 = r m v

Although angular momentum is conserved in a closed system, kinetic energy normally isn't if the radius is changed. This is because internal work is done to change the radius. During the transition, the object follows a spiral path, and the radial force includes a component of force in the direction of travel for the spiral path. The math for this is covered in this thread:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=328121
 
Last edited:
Why is inertia mr²?
 
kashiark said:
Why is inertia mr²?

Well, Jeff Reid referred to mr² as 'angular inertia'. A more common expression is 'moment of inertia'.

In physics we're looking for conserved quantities. We find that the quantity mv is conserved in collisions (and interactions in general).

Note that when Kepler's law of areas was formulated its close relationship to momentum wasn't immediately recognized. Newton showed that the area law follows logically from mechanics.

The area law is formulated geometrically, the counterpart of that in the form of a mathematical expression is that a quantity [itex]m r^2 \omega[/itex] is conserved. (where 'r' is the distance to the pivot point.)

The justification for defining the concept of 'moment of inertia' rests on the above: [itex]m r^2 \omega[/itex] (where 'r' is the distance to the pivot point) is conserved in collisions and interactions in general.

Cleonis
 

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