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nobahar
Oct29-09, 01:12 PM
Is it possible to simplify this?

\frac{a}{2^a}

It's actually part of a limit:

2\lim_{n\rightarrow\infty}(\sum_{a=4}^{n}\frac{a}{ 2^a})

The limit I'm hoping tends to 3/4 as n tends to infinity. It certainly appears to do so when I plotted a graph of a/(2^a).

Any little hints? Tried logs but got nowhere: I still end up with an 'a' on the top and bottom. I'm assuming that I need to elliminate it from either the numerator or the denominator.
Thanks in advance.

nobahar
Oct29-09, 01:20 PM
Okay, I got:
10^{\log{a}-a.C}

Where C=log{2}.
I don't know what to do with this.

JG89
Oct29-09, 01:36 PM
Does this help:

\frac{d}{da} \left ( \frac{-1}{2^a} \left ) = \frac{a}{2^{a + 1}}

nobahar
Oct29-09, 04:19 PM
I couldn't get the same result. I got:
\frac{d}{da} \left (\frac{-1}{2^a} \left ) = \frac {d}{da} (-1 * 2^{-a}) = \frac{\ln {2}}{2^a}
Because:
f(a)= \frac{-1}{2^a} = -1 * 2^{-a}

\ln {f(a)} = -1 * -a * \ln {2}

\frac{d}{da} \left (\ln {f(a)} \left ) = \ln {2} * \frac{d}{da} (a)

\frac {1}{f(a)} * \frac{d}{da} f(a) = 1 * \ln {2}

\frac{d}{da} f(a) = f(a) * \ln {2} = \frac{-1}{2^a} * \ln {2} = \frac{-\ln {2}}{2^a}

Is my calculus out?

Am I trying to establish the following?:
\int_4^\infty (\frac{a}{2a}) da

Any help much appreciated, thanks so much for the responses.

Borek
Oct29-09, 04:25 PM
I couldn't get the same result. I got:
\frac{d}{da} \left (\frac{-1}{2^a} \left ) = \frac {d}{da} (-1 * 2^{-a}) = \frac{\ln {2}}{2^a}

Wolfram alpha says you are right:

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=d%28-1%2F2%5Ea%29%2Fda

Mark44
Oct29-09, 04:32 PM
You could approximate
2 \sum_{a=4}^{\infty}\frac{a}{ 2^a}
by this integral:
2 \int_4^{\infty} \frac{x dx}{2^x}
assuming that both converge.

nobahar
Oct29-09, 04:43 PM
Thanks for the replies guys!
I'm really sorry, I don't understand.
I thought
\sum_4^\infty \left (\frac{a}{2^a} \left ) would be a less accurate approximation of \int_4^\infty \left (\frac{a}{2^a} \left ) da;
and that
\int_4^\infty \left (\frac{a}{2^a} \left ) da = \int_4^\infty \left (\frac{x}{2^x} \left ) dx when a = x
That is, are they not the same?
assuming that both converge.
I'm assuming they do as you have suggested it! But how do I make a safe assumption that this is the case?
Thanks again!

Mark44
Oct29-09, 04:57 PM
There's the Integral Test for infinite series...

BTW, this is not a Precalculus problem. It should be in the Calculus and Beyond section.

nobahar
Oct29-09, 05:17 PM
There's the Integral Test for infinite series...
Thanks, I'll look it up. Might need to wish me luck!.....

BTW, this is not a Precalculus problem. It should be in the Calculus and Beyond section.
Apologies, but I didn't know that it would entail calculus.

Once again, thanks for all your help!

nobahar
Oct29-09, 05:34 PM
You could approximate
2 \sum_{a=4}^{\infty}\frac{a}{ 2^a}
by this integral:
2 \int_4^{\infty} \frac{x dx}{2^x}
How do I go about doing this? It's difficult to integrate the function. I tried the easy way out by using the calculator but that didn't work.

Mark44
Oct29-09, 05:43 PM
Change to 2 \int_4^{\infty} x e^{-x ln 2}dx}
This can probably be done by integration by parts, with u = x, and dv = e-x ln2dx. That's how I would start.

Mark44
Oct29-09, 05:45 PM
Also, since this is an improper integral, you would need to take a limit:
2 \lim_{b \rightarrow \infty} \int_4^b x e^{-x ln 2}dx}

nobahar
Oct29-09, 05:51 PM
Thanks Mark, it seems you always come to my rescue.
Do I integrate first with the limit present for b?
i.e. \int_4^b x e^{-x ln 2}dx}, then employ the limit?
I am not familiar with this, it's more 'advanced' than what I have come across so far.

I'll go away and have a crack at it tomorrow, start afresh. (It's fairly late in Merry Old England.)
Once again, thanks for the continuing help.

Mark44
Oct29-09, 06:12 PM
Yes, integrate first, which will give you an expression involving b. Then take the limit.

JG89
Oct29-09, 07:09 PM
lol sorry about that nobahar, my mistake.

nobahar
Oct30-09, 04:55 PM
lol sorry about that nobahar, my mistake.
No problem!

I attempted to integrate the function:
\int xe^{-x \ln{2}} dx = \frac{x * e^{-x \ln{2}}}{- \ln{2}} \left \left - \left \left \frac{e^{-x \ln{2}}}{(\ln{2})^2} = \left - \left \frac{(\ln {2})^2 * x * e^{-x \ln{2}} - e^{-x \ln{2}} * \ln{2}}{(\ln{2})^3} = \left - \left \frac{\ln{2} * x * e^{-x \ln{2}} - e^{-x \ln{2}}}{(\ln{2})^2}
(Including +C)
Is this correct so far?

nobahar
Oct30-09, 05:05 PM
Attempt to 'simplify':


\left - \left \frac{e^{-x \ln{2}}(\ln{2} * x + 1)}{(\ln{2})^2}

Mark44
Oct31-09, 01:42 AM
Assuming that you did integration by parts correctly (I didn't check), and that you ended up with this, about the only thing I can see to do to simplify it is replace e-xln2 with 1/2x.

nobahar
Oct31-09, 02:21 PM
I'll post the workings.

\int xe^{-x \ln{2}} dx

u = x \left \left and \left \left \frac{dv}{dx} = e^{-x \ln{2}} \left \left then \left \left \frac{du}{dx} = 1 \left \left and \left \left v = \int e^{-x \ln{2}} dx = \frac{e^{-x \ln{2}}}{- \ln{2}}

\int xe^{-x \ln{2}} dx = \frac{xe^{-x \ln{2}}}{- \ln{2}} \left \left - \left \left \int \frac{e^{-x \ln{2}}}{- \ln{2}} dx = \frac{xe^{-x \ln{2}}}{- \ln{2}} \left \left - \left \left \frac{e^{-x \ln{2}}}{(\ln{2})^2}

nobahar
Nov2-09, 03:07 PM
Okay, so:
\frac{x \ln{2} + 1}{2^x(\ln{2})^2}

Now I need:
\lim_{b \rightarrow \infty}[\frac{x \ln{2} + 1}{2^x(\ln{2})^2}]^{x=b}_{x=4}]

I don't know how to do this. Where would I start?

Tedjn
Nov2-09, 05:17 PM
It seems to me that JG89's comment is in the right direction of the usual way to work this problem. It does involve a trick that you'll need to see spelled out in detail. Remember it and use it to solve similar problems. Consider for some positive integer n the function

f(x) = \frac{x^n}{2^n}

It is everywhere continuous and differentiable, and its derivative is

f'(x) = \frac{n}{2^n}x^{n-1}

Next, consider the sum:

F_n(x) = \sum_{a=4}^n \frac{x^a}{2^a}

so that we have a geometric series, i.e.

F_n(x) = \sum_{a=4}^n \frac{x^a}{2^a} = \frac{x^4/16 - x^5/2^{n+1}}{1-x/2}

The final step is to take the derivative:

F'_n(x) = \sum_{a=4}^n \frac{a}{2^a}x^{a-1} = \frac{(x^3/4-5x^4/2^{n+1})(1-x/2) + 1/2(x^4/16-x^5/2^{n+1})}{(1-x/2)^2}

Notice that

\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} F'_n(1) = \sum_{a=4}^\infty \frac{a}{2^a} = 5/4

is the limit that you are looking for.

nobahar
Nov3-09, 11:03 AM
That's truly amazing. Many, many thanks Tedjn. Initially, it's a little hard to follow because the derivitive is of the variable x, but then you take the sum of a. But I think I understand it. I'll work through it again.
Once again, many thanks.