Question about expanding black holes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of black holes, particularly focusing on the expansion of the event horizon as new matter is captured. Participants explore concepts related to the dynamics of black holes, mass loss, gravitational effects, and the implications of radiation on black hole size.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that as a black hole captures new matter, the event horizon expands but does not engulf previously accumulated matter, which remains at a constant distance from distant objects.
  • Others question whether a black hole loses mass, suggesting this could impose a limit on the size of the event horizon.
  • There are claims that the gravitational field of a black hole increases with expansion, affecting the orbits of nearby objects, though some argue that the mass interior to those orbits remains unchanged.
  • Some participants raise the idea that there may be a point where the radiation emitted from a black hole exceeds the matter it consumes, potentially limiting its maximum size.
  • Contrasting views suggest that larger black holes are "cooler" and emit less radiation compared to smaller black holes, which could influence their growth dynamics.
  • Participants discuss the implications of infalling mass on the dynamics of orbiting bodies, noting that the source of the infalling mass can alter the situation significantly.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the dynamics of black holes, the effects of mass loss, and the relationship between radiation and black hole size. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus on several key points.

Contextual Notes

Some claims depend on specific assumptions about the conditions surrounding black holes, such as the proximity of infalling mass and the nature of radiation emitted. The discussion does not resolve these assumptions or their implications.

Ray Eston Smith Jr
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Somewhere on the web I read that as new matter is captured by a black hole, the event horizon expands. But as it expands it does not engulf the matter that previously accumulated close to the horizon. Instead all that matter is carried outward along with the expanding event horizon. But "carried outward" doesn't mean the matter backs up. The distance of that matter from distant objects remains the same.

Is this true? If so, is it only the matter around the horizon that maintains a constant distance from distant objects? Or does the event horizon itself maintain a constant distance from distant objects?
 
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doesn't a black hole lose mass as well. This would mean that the event horizon would have a limit to its size.
 
When a black hole expands (by stuff falling in), its gravitational field is increased. Things nearby are presumably in some sort of orbit. What happens depends on the dynamics. The orbit would change, and it may fall in.

doesn't a black hole lose mass as well. This would mean that the event horizon would have a limit to its size.
The bigger the black hole, the slower the mass loss. There is no size limit. There are estimates for gigantic black holes at galactic centers. These have masses of millions to billions of solar mass.
 
isnt there a point where the rate of rediation emitted from a black hole is greater than the rate consumed? Wouldent this be a limit on the maximum size of a black hole.
 
mathman said:
When a black hole expands (by stuff falling in), its gravitational field is increased. Things nearby are presumably in some sort of orbit. What happens depends on the dynamics. The orbit would change, and it may fall in.
Well... perhaps not. All that matters to the orbiting bodies is the mass interior to their orbits, which hasn't changed.

- Warren
 
Nenad said:
isnt there a point where the rate of rediation emitted from a black hole is greater than the rate consumed? Wouldent this be a limit on the maximum size of a black hole.
No, since the rate increases as the size decreases. It really depends on the black hole (or rather, how much matter is near it for it to consume).
 
Actually, it works in reverse. The bigger the black hole, the 'cooler' it is. A density function thing. Low mass black holes, such as Hawking primordial black holes, radiate furiously. The big ones walk down to the pasture and open the gate.
 
Well... perhaps not. All that matters to the orbiting bodies is the mass interior to their orbits, which hasn't changed.

What you say is correct if the infalling mass was (in orbit) closer to the orbiting object in question. However, if it came from outside, it would be a different story.
 

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