Deterministic systems and disproving the schrodinger's cat theory

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deterministic systems and the implications of the Schrödinger's cat thought experiment in quantum mechanics. Participants explore the nature of quantum superposition, wave function collapse, and the relationship between observation and system states.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the logic surrounding the collapse of the wave function and the release of a particle is correct, suggesting that if a system does not release a particle, it remains in a superposition, which could imply a violation of causality.
  • Another participant clarifies that in the context of Heisenberg's argument, the emission of a particle is not controlled and can have macro consequences, indicating a misunderstanding of the original thought experiment.
  • A later reply asserts that the initial logic presented is incorrect, explaining that if a system is in an excited state, it evolves into a superposition, and the statements about the system's state contradict each other.
  • Some participants express confusion about the terminology and concepts, suggesting a need for further clarification on the Schrödinger's cat thought experiment.
  • One participant reflects on the idea of conflicting superpositions and the implications of a superposition of superpositions, indicating a level of uncertainty in their understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and agreement on the concepts discussed. There is no consensus on the correctness of the initial logic regarding wave function collapse and superposition, and multiple interpretations of the Schrödinger's cat thought experiment are present.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight potential misunderstandings of the Schrödinger's cat thought experiment and the nature of quantum superposition, indicating that definitions and assumptions may not be fully aligned.

DoctorMO
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
about deterministic systems and disproving the Schrödinger's cat theory.

if your system state is determined by a quantum wave function then the theory states that your wave function collapses as soon as it is observed... if you set up your system so that after a set time period based on the state of the system, the system say releases a particle or doesn't release a particle. the act of the particle being observed will collapse the system, but the trick is if the system doesn't release a particle then according the theory the system will still be in a quantum super position (and half of the time it will have released a particle) and it will there for either defy causality or have collapsed by some other means.

Is this correct logic, or am I missing something?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
I do not understand sufficiently to answer.
 
The original theory or my post?
 
What do you mean by "release a particle"? In Heisenberg's argument, the particle was released (emitted) by a radioactive nucleus and so you have no control over whether a particle is released or not. Heisenberg's point was that quantum changes (emitting a particle) CAN have macro consequences.
 
DoctorMO said:
The original theory or my post?

May I give you a friendly advise that you first do a search on the "Schrödinger Cat" on this forum? It will save you a lot of "grief" figuring out if what you are asking has already been answered numerous times. It will also help you to understand this further because it appears that you are utterly confused of what a "Schrödinger Cat" is.

[Hint: it ISN'T a "theory", it is a thought experiment to illustrate the superposition principle of Quantum Mechanics. So you are looking at the tail end of an animal and confusing that it IS the whole animal]

Zz.
 
DoctorMO said:
...if the system doesn't release a particle then according the theory the system will still be in a quantum super position...

Is this correct logic, or am I missing something?
No, this is not correct logic. Suppose that we're talking about an atom in an excited state. Let's call the excited state |e> and the ground state |g>. The system starts out in the state |e> and after a while, it has evolved into a superposition, something like |e> + |g>. This means that there is a 50% probability that a measurement will find that the atom has decayed to the ground state, and a 50% probability that a measurement will find that it is still in the excited state.

"the system doesn't release a particle" means that the state is |e>.

"the system will still be in a quantum superposition" means that the state is |e> + |g>.

These two statements contradict each other.
 
Makes sense, thanks.
 
I think it was the post. Maybe it was just the lack of capital letters. I'm sure you'll be understanding this soon enough. Welcome to the boards BTW, we'll be happy to discuss these things with you.
 
Was thinking 'can't have conflicting super positions which would cause a super position of the super position colapsing' but the word guess floated around in my mind looking for somthing to attach to.
 

Similar threads

High School Are Schrodinger's cat and the double slit experiment the same idea?
  • · Replies 42 ·
2
Replies
42
Views
7K
Undergrad Why don't we bury Schrodinger's Cat?
  • · Replies 143 ·
5
Replies
143
Views
13K
Insights Schrödinger’s Cat and the Qbit
  • · Replies 46 ·
2
Replies
46
Views
9K
Graduate Can particles appear and disappear "with" a cause?
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Undergrad Schrödinger equation and classical wave equation
  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
5K
Graduate Can wave particle dualism be replaced by a monistic model?
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
High School Does the Schrödinger Equation Imply a Deterministic Universe?
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
High School Question about quantum superposition
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
High School Does Schrödinger's Cat Know Its Own Fate?
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
Undergrad Schrodinger's cat, the multiverse and isolated systems
  • · Replies 61 ·
3
Replies
61
Views
7K