Gravity's Effect on Electric Charges in a Gravitational Field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interaction between gravity and electric charges, specifically focusing on how gravitational fields may affect the forces between protons. Participants explore theoretical implications, including the role of virtual photons and gravitons in these interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that in a gravitational field, virtual photons exchanged between two protons would be redshifted and blueshifted, potentially altering the effective charge experienced by each proton.
  • Another participant counters that virtual photons mediate electromagnetic forces, while gravitons mediate gravitational forces, questioning the significance of gravitational effects on the electric forces between protons.
  • A different viewpoint posits that even small changes in effective electric charges could be significant, especially when considering protons in an electric field and the implications for mass and potential energy.
  • Some participants assert that mass cannot be created, while others challenge this notion, suggesting that understanding may evolve with age or further study.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the effects of gravity on electric charges and the concept of mass creation. There is no consensus on the validity of the claims made, and multiple competing views remain present in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the interactions of virtual particles and the implications of gravitational fields on electric forces, which may not be fully resolved. The definitions of mass and charge conservation are also points of contention.

Rothiemurchus
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There are two protons in the gravitational field of the Earth, one directly above the other.They experience the electric force through exchange of virtual photons.A virtual photon traveling vertically upwards from the lower proton towards the higher proton would be redshifted and so exert a smaller force on the higher proton than it would if there was no gravitational field present.
A virtual photon traveling vertically downwards towards the lower proton would be blueshifted and exert a bigger force on the lower proton than it would if there was no gravitational field present.
Has gravity given the higher proton a bigger effective charge (since the magnitude of a charge can be determined by the force it exerts on other charges)
and the lower proton a smaller effective charge.The sum of the charges would still be the same so we could say that charge is conserved still.
 
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No. The virtual photon by definition is the mediator of the electromagnetic force.

Gravitons mediate the gravitational force.

The correct question would be, how much is the net potential going to vary between the protons if you take gravity into account. And the answer is, not much, assuming they are fairly close together.

Now, ok, ok.. You can draw a feynman diagram where there is vacuum graviton loops in the virtual photon line.. But again the contribution is so vanishingly small no one cares about it.
 
The contribution may be small but if the effective electric charges change that is significant.And reversing the situation and putting the protons in an electric field
(where gravitons would have their energy changed by interaction with photons)
we could conclude that mass is created by placing a particle higher up in an
electric field where the potential energy is greater.Note also that rotating the
protons in the gravitational field through any angle will leave total electric charge conserved.
 
Mass Cannot Be Created!
 
veryyoung said:
Mass Cannot Be Created!

um... yeah, it can be. You'll understand when you're older, veryyoung :smile:
 

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