Maximum voltage on a unipolar capacitor

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the maximum voltage that can be applied to a metal ball of radius R (1 cm) in air, specifically considering the implications of air's dielectric strength (3kV/mm) on charge placement. The scope includes theoretical considerations and practical challenges related to high voltage applications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about calculating the maximum voltage based on air's dielectric strength of 3kV/mm.
  • Another participant agrees with the initial method proposed for calculating maximum voltage.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the reliability of the 3kV/mm value, noting that it is applicable to spark gaps designed for specific breakdown voltages.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the behavior of 'streamers' at high voltages, suggesting that above 50 to 100kV, complex avalanche mechanisms can lead to unexpected propagation of discharge paths.
  • Further complications are mentioned, such as the influence of supporting materials on the sphere and the potential for discharge to occur at pointed regions, particularly in setups like Van De Graaff generators.
  • Despite the challenges, it is suggested that using the 3kV/mm value can provide a rough estimate, emphasizing the importance of recognizing the limitations and difficulties involved in such calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the reliability of the dielectric strength value or the implications of high voltage behavior, indicating multiple competing views and unresolved issues in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the specific conditions under which the dielectric strength applies, the complexities of high voltage discharge phenomena, and the potential influence of external materials on the sphere's charge distribution.

htg
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I need to place as much charge as possible on a metal ball of radius R (say 1 cm), in air.
What is the maximum voltage? Can I calculate it from air's dielectric strength ( 3kV/mm)?
 
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htg said:
I need to place as much charge as possible on a metal ball of radius R (say 1 cm), in air.
What is the maximum voltage? Can I calculate it from air's dielectric strength ( 3kV/mm)?

Your method looks good.
 
You can't trust that 3kV/mm. It applies to spark gaps that are usually quite close together and deliberately designed to break down at more-or-less specific voltages

At high voltages, the propagation of 'streamers' from the electrode tends to take place by complex avalanche mechanisms. At something above 50 to 100kV streamers can start to grow to surprising lengths.

Take a look at the various Tesla Coil videos and photos on the web, you'll see what I mean.
 
AJ Bentley said:
You can't trust that 3kV/mm. It applies to spark gaps that are usually quite close together and deliberately designed to break down at more-or-less specific voltages

At high voltages, the propagation of 'streamers' from the electrode tends to take place by complex avalanche mechanisms. At something above 50 to 100kV streamers can start to grow to surprising lengths.

Take a look at the various Tesla Coil videos and photos on the web, you'll see what I mean.

There are other problems the main one being that depending on the method of supporting the sphere other material(s) can be brought into contact with it and the curvature of the sphere can be comprimised at some places.I am thinking in particular about the Van De Graaff generator where discharge occurs mainly at the more pointed regions at the base and or at places where materials are brought close to the dome.Despite these difficulties the op needs to carry out a calculation and using a value of 3kV/mm gives an answer which is better than no answer at all.The important thing is that the op becomes aware of the difficulties and hopefully comes up with ways of minimising them.
 

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