Is the Kuiper Belt responsible for the subtle slowdown in Bode's law?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the empirical nature of Bode's law and its applicability, particularly in light of the Kuiper Belt's potential influence on the subtle slowdown observed in celestial objects. Participants explore various theories and models regarding gravitational effects and the dynamics of the solar system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the validity of Bode's law, citing its empirical basis and discrepancies with Pluto's orbit.
  • There is mention of a theory involving ion waves from the sun creating nodes in planetary orbits, though some find this idea implausible without a solid mathematical framework.
  • Historical references are made to magnetic forces in the primordial gas/dust cloud as a potential explanation for orbital patterns, with skepticism about Pluto's relevance as a test case.
  • One participant suggests that the anomalous acceleration of Pioneer 10 might be linked to radiation pressure, raising questions about the effects of such pressure on its velocity.
  • A theory is proposed that the Kuiper Belt could be more massive than previously thought, potentially affecting the gravitational dynamics experienced by objects outside the belt.
  • Participants discuss the implications of the Kuiper Belt's disk-like structure on gravitational forces, contrasting it with the theoretical scenario of a hollow sphere.
  • There is a reference to the Ulysses spacecraft experiencing similar slowdowns, despite its orbit not reaching the Kuiper Belt, due to its high inclination.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the validity of Bode's law and the theories related to the Kuiper Belt's influence, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without consensus.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on assumptions about the mass and distribution of Kuiper Belt Objects (KBOs) and the nature of gravitational forces in a disk-like structure, which are not fully resolved in the discussion.

Rothiemurchus
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Why does Bode's law work so well?
Has anyone figured it out yet?
 
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It is completely empirical and does not work. Pluto, not discoverd at the time of Bode's Law is not even close.
Google is your friend
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jbstoneking/jbspage4.htm
 
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On that link there is a theory about ion waves from the sun causing
nodes where the planets orbit.Is this theory likely to be right?
 
It seems a bit far fetched to me, but perhaps not impossible. It is not clear if he has a well formulated mathematical model or merely more empirical relationships.
 
Years ago there was talk about magnetic forces in the primeval gas/dust cloud that could do it. I haven't heard of anything about that in a long time. Pluto is not a good test case, since it may not have formed at the same time and out of the same cloud the other planets did. Some folks don't even consider it a planet!
 
If the anomalous acceleration of pioneer 10 is being caused by some sort of radiation pressure then perhaps ions being reflected back to the sun account for it.
 
Rothiemurchus said:
If the anomalous acceleration of pioneer 10 is being caused by some sort of radiation pressure then perhaps ions being reflected back to the sun account for it.
Hmm... Wouldn't ant radiation pressure orginating in the solar system tend to speed it up, rather then slow it down?
 
Rothiemurchus said:
On that link there is a theory about ion waves from the sun causing
nodes where the planets orbit.Is this theory likely to be right?

Why would there be nodes of any sort on an open system and the only radiation of ion acoustic waves is strictly outward?
 
The slowdown is very subtle, like about 7 mph / century. I've heard a theory that the slowdown could be accounted for if the Kuiper Belt were more massive than expected, either by the existence of more KBOs than theorized, or by the presence of lots of dust. The planets, orbiting interior to the belt, and in the same plane, are not affected, but outside the belt, the cumulitave gravitational forces would slow an object down. This is similar to the question about how much would you weigh if you were inside a hollow at the center of the Earth. The answer is you would be weightless because you're being pulled from all directions, but on the surface and above, you have weight.

But unlike the hollow in the middle of a sphere example, the Kupier Belt is not a sphere, but a disk. So to experience a net gravitational force of 0 from the Kuiper Belt, an object needs to be orbiting in the ecliptic as well as orbiting interior to the Kuiper Belt.

I understand that the Ulysses spacecraft experiences the same slowdown. Although its orbit never carries it as far from the Sun as the Kuiper Belt, its high inclination carries it high above the ecliptic.

Here's a link related to this theory:
http://www.Newtonphysics.on.ca/Anomalous/Acceleration.html
 
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