A quickly oscillating mass produces a gravitationnal wave

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    Mass Oscillating Wave
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of gravitational waves and their potential analogs in gravitational fields, particularly in relation to oscillating masses and charges. Participants explore the concept of gravitomagnetism and its implications, as well as the detection of gravitational waves by experiments like LIGO.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that gravitational waves exist, suggesting that even simple motions, like waving a hand, could produce them.
  • There is a question about whether an oscillating mass produces a corresponding "GB-wave" analogous to the E and B waves produced by oscillating charges.
  • Some participants mention gravitomagnetism, noting that it is tested by experiments like Gravity Probe B and involves effects such as frame-dragging and the Lense-Thirring effect.
  • One participant explains that while electromagnetism involves linear currents attracting, gravitomagnetism involves repulsion between linear parallel currents.
  • It is noted that gravitational waves are associated with quadrupole moments rather than dipole moments, which contributes to their weak detection signals.
  • Participants discuss the similarity of the equations governing gravitational waves to Maxwell's equations for electromagnetism, highlighting differences in the mathematical treatment.
  • There is uncertainty expressed regarding the detection of gravitational waves, with one participant stating that positive signatures have yet to be confirmed by LIGO.
  • Some participants agree that wave functions behave like waves and suggest that gravity likely follows similar wave form equations, though there is a question about the current status of gravitational wave detection.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express both agreement and disagreement on various points, particularly regarding the existence and detection of gravitational waves, the nature of gravitomagnetism, and the implications of gravitational wave theory. The discussion remains unresolved on several aspects, particularly the detection status of gravitational waves.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various theoretical concepts and experimental efforts, but there are limitations in the discussion regarding the completeness of definitions and the status of ongoing research in gravitational wave detection.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for those interested in gravitational physics, wave phenomena, and the theoretical underpinnings of gravitational waves and gravitomagnetism.

Gonzolo
Whether they have been detected or not (someone might want to update on this, LIGO etc.?), it seems undeniable that gravitationnal waves exist. It seems sufficient to wave my hand to create one.

My question is the following : if an oscillating charge produces a linearly polarized E-wave, there is a corresponding, perpendicular B-wave, but if an oscillating mass produces a linearly polarized G-wave, is there a corresponding "GB-wave"? Is there somekind of a gravitation "magnetic-like" field totally distinct from conventionnal magnetism? I would expect it to be quite miniscule, but what do the theorists say?

Mixing Coulomb's Law with special relativity gives rise to regular magnetism, but what happens if you mix F = GMm/r^2 with special relativity?
 
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Gonzolo said:
Whether they have been detected or not (someone might want to update on this, LIGO etc.?), it seems undeniable that gravitationnal waves exist. It seems sufficient to wave my hand to create one.

My question is the following : if an oscillating charge produces a linearly polarized E-wave, there is a corresponding, perpendicular B-wave, but if an oscillating mass produces a linearly polarized G-wave, is there a corresponding "GB-wave"? Is there somekind of a gravitation "magnetic-like" field totally distinct from conventionnal magnetism? I would expect it to be quite miniscule, but what do the theorists say?

Mixing Coulomb's Law with special relativity gives rise to regular magnetism, but what happens if you mix F = GMm/r^2 with special relativity?

Gravitomagnetism is one of the things that's going to be tested by Gravity probe B. Other names for it are frame-dragging, and the Lense-Thirring effect.

It's fairly similar to magnetism, with a few differences - linear parallel currents attract in electromagnetism, they repel in gravitomagnetism.

In electromagnetism, dipole moments cause radiation - for gravity waves, it's the quadropole moment, one reason gravity waves are so weak (the other is that the force itself is a lot weaker than elctromagnetism).

The equations for gravity waves are fairly similar to Maxwell's equations for electromagnetism, but there is another index. Instead of a magnetic vector potential Au like one has with electromagnetism, one has the linearized symmetrized metric coefficients [tex]\bar h_{uv}[/tex]

WIkipedia has an article on gravitomagnetism, but it's not terribly detailed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_dragging
 
Gonzolo said:
My question is the following : if an oscillating charge produces a linearly polarized E-wave, there is a corresponding, perpendicular B-wave, but if an oscillating mass produces a linearly polarized G-wave, is there a corresponding "GB-wave"? Is there somekind of a gravitation "magnetic-like" field totally distinct from conventionnal magnetism? ?

Yes, Gonzolo. There is a type of gravity predicted by GR that is the direct analog of the magnetic field in electromagnitism. It is generally referred to as the 'gravito-magnetic' field since arises from the motion of mass in direct analogy with charge currents in EM.

However, gravity waves are a result of acceleration of non-uniform mass distribution and results in quadrupolar (not linear) polarized emissions. That is, GW energy will not radiate from the source unless there is an accelerated quadrupolar mass moment.

BTW, to my knowledge, positive signatures of GW's have yet to be detected by LIGO.

Creator

--"Gravity always brings me down"--
 
Last edited:
Wave functions are very well behaved. They behave like waves. It is very logical to assume gravity obeys the wave form equations. There is too much indirect evidence to say it does not.
 
Chronos said:
Wave functions are very well behaved. They behave like waves. It is very logical to assume gravity obeys the wave form equations. There is too much indirect evidence to say it does not.
Agreed, but should we have detected gravitational waves by now?
Garth
 

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