Is the Universe Governed by Divine Physics or Natural Laws?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of the universe and whether it is governed by divine physics or natural laws. Participants explore philosophical implications, the origins of physical laws, and the relationship between metaphysics and physics, particularly in the context of the universe's existence before the Big Bang.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the universe existed from the beginning or before the beginning, raising metaphysical considerations.
  • One participant references Lee Smolin's writings as relevant to the topic.
  • There are humorous exchanges about the nature of physics and personal weight goals, which lead to discussions about the applicability of physical laws before the Big Bang.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the original question, debating whether it pertains to who created the rules of physics or when those rules came into existence.
  • One participant suggests that the question might be philosophical, questioning if a god is necessary to design the rules of physics.
  • Another participant notes that the question could lead to discussions about the "God of the gaps" concept, indicating a philosophical dimension without definitive answers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus, with multiple competing views on the relationship between divine influence and natural laws, as well as the interpretation of the original question.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various interpretations of the term "the beginning" and the implications of physical laws existing prior to the Big Bang, which remain unresolved.

RunToFreeForFly
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Do it exist from the beginning or before the begining?
 
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?

Translation: what exactly are you talking about? :confused:
 
Lee Smolin has written some books that bear on this topic.
 
I do. I have been given the legal right and responsibility for constructing all rules of Physics!
 
That's mean, y'all !
 
well...i suppose that physics is supposed to be universal, but physics is based on the observations of the known universe. So if there was no universe to exsist there would be no "rules" out side of this infinitely small point in the heavens that contains the universe before the big bang. So u start to travel into the metaphysics or spirtual physics depends on what u believe...
 
HallsofIvy said:
I do. I have been given the legal right and responsibility for constructing all rules of Physics!

Oh, thank goodness you posted, Halls! I have been wondering who to speak to about this. Tomorrow I have a weigh-in at my fitness group meeting and I am 0.25 lbs. away from my ideal weight. If you could ease up on the gravitational force just an eensy weensy bit, I think I can make it. :smile:
Thanks in advance!

OK, regarding the original question.. I am not sure if it is: "Who created the rules?" or "Who wrote the rules down?" I think some clarification is in order. "The beginning" is a very vague term.
 
Gokul43201 said:
And that ideal weight (cough cough)...would be what ? :wink:

Just trying to understand the physics involved here... :rolleyes:

Actually, I got to pick my ideal weight - my advisors wanted me to go higher but I had a certain number in mind. It's at the lower end of the weight range for my height. Before I got my nice cushy "gummint job", I had high-stress occupations that caused me to pack on extra pounds, and I wanted to get everything back under control. I've shed almost 20 lbs. of flab since May and now I am back down to my "fighting weight" so I am extremely happy. :smile:
 
Math Is Hard said:
Tomorrow I have a weigh-in at my fitness group meeting and I am 0.25 lbs. away from my ideal weight. If you could ease up on the gravitational force just an eensy weensy bit, I think I can make it. :smile:
Thanks in advance!

Even if Halls could change gravity you probably still wouldn't make it! Most fitness group weighings use balance scales - not the spring variety.
:wink:
 
  • #10
Darn it! C'mon Halls, I know you can do something! Well, I'll report back tomorrow and let you know if Halls was successful or not! :smile:
 
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  • #11
Math Is Hard said:
Darn it! C'mon Halls, I know you can do something! Well, I'll report back tomorrow and let you know if Halls was successful or not! :smile:

Just don't drink any water until after you've weighed in. Stop at the restroom just before to get rid of any excess water weight. Also, wear your lightest shoes. Skip breakfast. Do all that and you can easily lose .25 lb in a morning (of course you'll gain it all back at lunch).

Is the first question supposed to be "Who" or "When?" By rules, do they mean laws of physics? My first reading of the question was to interpret it as asking if the laws of physics are only applicable post-Big Bang, or did they already exist prior to that. But maybe I'm being generous. "Who" doesn't really fit with the way the rest of the question was asked, so I doubt they are looking for a name of someone or something.
 
  • #12
Moonbear, thanks for the advice! Do you think if I run up and down the stairs in the morning it will help, or is that waiting too late? (I ran around the block 8 times tonight).
 
  • #13
Good job, Halls. I was down three pounds! Just remember to turn the knobs slowly when you're bringing gravity back to normal. It causes earthquakes when you go too fast. :biggrin:
 
  • #14
Sirus said:
?

Translation: what exactly are you talking about? :confused:

I mean...Does it require a god to design the physics rule. why the world is not like bunny cartoon?
 
  • #15
Because God doesn't have a sense of humor ?? :confused:

I don't think this has helped clarify what your question means...
 
  • #16
RunToFreeForFly said:
I mean...Does it require a god to design the physics rule. why the world is not like bunny cartoon?
"Why isn't the world like a (Bugs Bunny?) cartoon? The moderator might want to steer this to the philosophy forums --- there have been a few discussions about the "God of the gaps" in there. There aren't any conclusions, because the question is philosophical in nature, and, therefore, has no answer.
 

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