Putin on the Ritz

[Ivan Seeking]

MOSCOW (AP) - Russia is developing a new nuclear missile system unlike any weapon held by other countries, President Vladimir Putin said Wednesday, a move that could serve as a signal to the United States as Washington pushes forward with a missile defense system.

Putin gave no details about the system or why Russia was pursuing it, and it was unclear whether the Kremlin's cash-strapped armed forces could even afford an expensive new weapon.[continued]
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041118/D86DUO8G0.html

[franznietzsche]

Russia/US Relations for the Past 4 years:

Russia : Hey Americans!!! We're still important dammit!! Pay attention to me!! I could still wipe you of the face of the planet!!! I still matter dammit!!

America : Gotta get the terrorists...

Russia : Hey if you aren't careful we could destroy you, cause we're important you know!!

America : Yeah, yeah whatever. Gotta get the terrorists...

[Smurf]

Once again franz your understanding of international relations astounds me to no end, I bask in your intelligence and comical flair.

[Polly]

:rofl: .

Seriously, can anyone blame Putin? Even I a Chinese who is just minding her own business, switched from a stout Independent-Taiwan supporter to a unification supporter since the re-election of Bush. Maybe it is America that is the Axis of Evil to some of us?

[Zantra]

:rofl: .

Seriously, can anyone blame Putin? Even I a Chinese who is just minding her own business, switched from a stout Independent-Taiwan supporter to a unification supporter since the re-election of Bush. Maybe it is America that is the Axis of Evil to some of us?

Not America, just George Dubya Bush.

Everyone always generalizes us. Meanwhile china sits over there behind the iron curtain of communism. I'm American, but I don't typify the stereotypes. Nor do a lot of americans. Should I assume since you're chinese your main mode of transportation is a rickshaw?

Look at each person individually. No 2 are alike.

[franznietzsche]

Once again franz your understanding of international relations astounds me to no end, I bask in your intelligence and comical flair.


Not entirely sure whether that was sarcasm, or serious. Oh well,i'll just assume it was seriosu since that is easier to respond to nicely.


:approve:

[Smurf]

it was a little bit of both really.

[wasteofo2]

In Russia, Vladamir Putin is slowly dissolving Democracy. He eliminated the people's right to vote for local governors and representatives in Russian Parliment, and has been jailing dissidents and political opponents. He's gaining more and more power, and threatening to return back to a USSR style government.

MEANWHILE, back in the states, George Bush pursues new nuclear weapons while simeltaneously saying he's trying to end nuclear proliferation.

SOOOOO, to keep up with America, Putin pushes for the development of new long-range nuclear weapons that could possibly penetrate our multi-billion-dollar missile defense system.

It's all happening all over again, just like with WWII and the Cold War. We need Russia's help to fight the terrorists (as we did with the Nazis), so we'll ignore how threatening they are to us, and how Democracy is being erroded by Putin (as it was by Stalin), and ally with them. Then Russia will turn around and be a dictatorial threat to America again.

People are fighting and dying for a stable, fair, democracy in Iraq, and yet Russia (who's got WAY more ability to harm us than Iraq ever did/will), our ally in the war on terror, is reverting back to a dictatorship, and that's just fine.

[Smurf]

In Russia, Vladamir Putin is slowly dissolving Democracy. He eliminated the people's right to vote for local governors and representatives in Russian Parliment, and has been jailing dissidents and political opponents. He's gaining more and more power, and threatening to return back to a USSR style government...
No wonder him and Bush are getting along so well.

[franznietzsche]

In Russia, Vladamir Putin is slowly dissolving Democracy. He eliminated the people's right to vote for local governors and representatives in Russian Parliment, and has been jailing dissidents and political opponents. He's gaining more and more power, and threatening to return back to a USSR style government.

MEANWHILE, back in the states, George Bush pursues new nuclear weapons while simeltaneously saying he's trying to end nuclear proliferation.

SOOOOO, to keep up with America, Putin pushes for the development of new long-range nuclear weapons that could possibly penetrate our multi-billion-dollar missile defense system.

It's all happening all over again, just like with WWII and the Cold War. We need Russia's help to fight the terrorists (as we did with the Nazis), so we'll ignore how threatening they are to us, and how Democracy is being erroded by Putin (as it was by Stalin), and ally with them. Then Russia will turn around and be a dictatorial threat to America again.

People are fighting and dying for a stable, fair, democracy in Iraq, and yet Russia (who's got WAY more ability to harm us than Iraq ever did/will), our ally in the war on terror, is reverting back to a dictatorship, and that's just fine.

I hate to burst your bubble, Stalin didn't erode any democracy. There was no democracy in Russia. There was the Czars, The Provisional Government (as close to democracy as it got until the 90s),and then the Bolsheviks. There was no democracy for Stalin to erode.

And yeah, dictatorships that work with us are always ok. Why do you think we supported Chiang Kai-shek, former dictator of taiwan? Because he fought the commies. thats all. Human rights violations? We let him get away with it because he was convenient to our cause.

We've never had a problem allying with demons, so longas they were fighting against the devil with us.

(For the more thick: that was a metaphor, try not to take it too literally.)

[Smurf]

I resent the implication that Communism is inherently evil.

[franznietzsche]

I resent the implication that Communism is inherently evil.


My metaphor was meant to be more broad than that. The devil = enemy of the moment, demon = lesser enemyof the moment.

Hence why i said try not to take it too literally.

[Smurf]

Okay, I've met too many people who have that mind set to not consider that conclusion though.

[franznietzsche]

Okay, I've met too many people who have that mind set to not consider that conclusion though.


Well, i mostly have that mind set. Hate socialism in general. :tongue2:

But that was not what i meant to imply in the metaphor.

[wasteofo2]

I hate to burst your bubble, Stalin didn't erode any democracy. There was no democracy in Russia. There was the Czars, The Provisional Government (as close to democracy as it got until the 90s),and then the Bolsheviks. There was no democracy for Stalin to erode.


:rofl:
Can't belieive I wrote that Stalin eroded Democracy, musta been operating on too little sleee. I meant to say something along the lines that Putin's slowly getting to where Stalin was, came out wrong.


And yeah, dictatorships that work with us are always ok. Why do you think we supported Chiang Kai-shek, former dictator of taiwan? Because he fought the commies. thats all. Human rights violations? We let him get away with it because he was convenient to our cause.

We've never had a problem allying with demons, so longas they were fighting against the devil with us.

(For the more thick: that was a metaphor, try not to take it too literally.)
I realize we work with dictatorships all the time and do tons of things that come back and bite us in the end, I just think it's especially Naive to work with a dictatorship whose leader was previously an employee of the KGB and is currently building advanced nuclear weapons for the sole purpose of being able to penetrate our missile defense system.

Though I guess we have a long precendence of this sort of thing in America. For instance, Reagan decided to arm/train/support Osama Bin Laden and his guys, who hated America just as much as the Soviets. Reagan also installed Saddam, then his (Reagan's) Vice President had to go to war with him.

[tumor]

I'm very happy what Putin is doing in Russia, otherwise Russia and its naturall resources, any remaining strategic industriess, pipelines, ports etc, could end up being sold out for almost nothing to the western bankers and milions of people loose meager wages.
And to hell with your ****ing democracy! do we here in N .America have democracy? my *** we do!
Russians have some honor left and they don't want to be dictated what to do by west and especcially USA.Russia is not Poland or Czech Republic.
Good job Putin!

PS. what you guys think was the deal with that Yokoil and arrest of its CEO Khodorovsky?
Putin could not let more fifth columnists start to gnaw on Russia from within.

[Smurf]

I don't like Putin but I have to agree with Tumor, he's defending Russia from Western Capitalism.