Are Tornadoes and Ball Lightning Examples of Plasmoid Phenomena?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the classification of tornadoes and ball lightning as plasmoid phenomena, exploring their characteristics and similarities. Participants share personal accounts, anecdotal evidence, and references to various phenomena related to plasmoids, including UFO sightings and other energetic occurrences. The scope includes theoretical considerations, personal experiences, and references to scientific literature.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe tornadoes and ball lightning as having anomalous characteristics similar to those of plasmoid phenomena produced in laboratory settings.
  • One participant shares a personal account of witnessing lights moving inside clouds, suggesting a possible connection to plasmoid phenomena.
  • Another participant questions the lack of home video evidence for ball lightning, contrasting it with the abundance of tornado footage.
  • It is noted that the existence of ball lightning is widely accepted among meteorologists, with references to documented encounters and research from Japanese scientists.
  • Some participants propose that the lights observed in certain UFO sightings could be related to ball lightning or similar phenomena.
  • Discussion includes references to solitons and their potential connection to atmospheric phenomena, with some suggesting that solitons may explain the behavior of certain observed lights.
  • One participant mentions personal experiences with plasma balls and their occurrence during flights, indicating a possible connection to atmospheric electrical phenomena.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the classification and understanding of ball lightning and related phenomena. While there is some agreement on the existence of ball lightning, the discussion remains unresolved regarding its nature and the connections to other phenomena like tornadoes and UFO sightings.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various sources and personal experiences, but there are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions and conditions under which these phenomena are observed. The relationship between different phenomena remains speculative, and some claims are based on anecdotal evidence.

Ivan Seeking
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The author makes a lot of strange statements but this is interesting. I am posting this for the descriptions and personal accounts, and certainly not for the theories described.
Tornadoes and ball lightning are identified, and described as plasmoid phenomena. Certain anomalous characteristics of tornadoes and ball lightning are described and shown to be similar to the behavior of the plasmoid phenomena produced by electrolysis and discharge apparatus; in part, as evidenced by certain kinds of micrometer sized traces in nuclear emulsions and marks in materials. [continued]
http://www.padrak.com/ine/ELEWIS3.html
 
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I have been getting caught up on some of my websites. With the above paper in mind, the first Dec UFO report that I read was this one.

National UFO Reporting Center Sighting Report
Occurred : 12/12/2004 22:00 (Entered as : 12/12/1904 22:00)
Reported: 12/13/2004 11:33:08 PM 23:33
Posted: 12/14/2004
Location: Nashville, TN
Shape: Light
Duration:30 min.
lights circling inside clouds over Nashville

My wife and I were driving on I-40 westbound on Sunday night, coming back to Nashville from east Tennessee. After passing the Lebanon exit, I began noticing lights moving inside the clouds closer to Nashville. As we got closer, I could tell that they looked like spot lights shining down from above or inside the clouds instead of from below, and they were moving in large circles. This night we saw two of them moving in large circles and figure eights from east to west over Nashville. One of the main reasons I became so interested was that my wife and I have seen similar lights before.

I filed a report back in 8/03 about lights we saw clrcling around inside the clouds during a big thunderstorm. We had pretty much conviced ourselves that this earlier sighting was a spotlight promoting something, or maybe lights from the Starwood Ampitheater, which we're kind of near (although I don't know why anyone would have continued to shine these types of lights during one of the biggest thunderstorms of the summer). These lights looked almost exactly the same and were moving in almost the same fashion, except there were only two instead of four. So now we had a chance to try to find the source of these lights and prove to ourselves that we weren't seeing anything out of the ordinary.

We closed in on the city from about 30 miles out and the lights became increasingly obvious. I'm sure other cars must have seen them, but there's no way to know. I had slowed down a lot because I was fascinated by these lights clrcling and seemingly swooping around just above the cloud ceiling. We kept expecting one to become more visible or distinct though a break in the clouds, but it never happened. They stayed very fuzzy and shapeless. The lights would circle opposite each other, then move together and back apart or do some crazy zig zag. However, we never saw a beam of light from the ground, and that was primarily what we were looking for.

We got off the interstate on Stewarts Ferry Pk., when we thought we were finally getting below the lights, and went east. I was driving, but my wife could still see them northeast of us, so I took a left on Lebanon Pk and went north. Now we were very close to the Nashville airport, but the general movement of the lights seemed to be to the northwest and we could never get under them. We were also getting around more city lights and it was harder to see them, and they seemed to be farther away from us. We were tired from our drive so we went on home, but we satisfied ourselves that these lights were not originating from spotlights on the ground. I don't know that it proves anything about the first lights we saw, but it makes me wonder. I know other people must have seen these lights, as they were all over above the city, so I'm hoping someone else will come forward.
http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/041/S41111.html

Many similar reports have peaked my interest for years. Many times the source is seen clearly but remains inexplicable. One of our members reported an encounter with some kind of energetic phenomenon that blew out the spark plugs on his motorcycle. He reported that the electrodes on the spark plugs were burned away at the moment of an energetic burst of light from a bright orb that followed either him, or the highway, or the power lines along the highway, or the tree line, or...
 
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I guess one thing I wonder about ball lightning is why I have never seen a home video of it. Look at all the home videos you see of tornadoes. Surely there should be at least one home video of ball lightning with all the camcorders out there these days?
 
The existence of ball lightning is now considered fact by most meteorologists. I'm not sure what pushed this over the edge into the mainstream...maybe it was the giant hole that ball lighting left in the roof of a house in Japan? I know that some Japanese scientists really carried this field for quite a time, and I believe that they provided the final proof in a series of papers including some well documented encounters with BL.
 
The following link shows an image of two bright orbs captured on video by a BBC news crew, in Worcestershire, England, in July 2003.
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41782

Could this be ball lightning, or perhaps a related or seemingly similar phenomenon?

See also
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20020209/bob8.asp
http://www.prometheus2.net/bl-tokyo.pdf

I will be posting a new sticky thread that will contain all references found for this subject. In these really ancient things called books, :biggrin:, I have seen many pictures of phenomena thought to be ball lightning.
 
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I was fascinated with different types of phenomena as a child. I remember reading about St Elmo's Fire, or what is thought to be a type of ball lightning.

More about it here. http://www.physics.northwestern.edu/classes/2001Fall/Phyx135-2/17/whatisstelmosfire.html

and a differing opinon here. http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/Sciences/Physics/Electromagnetism/Electrostatics/ElectroSpectrum/StElmosFire/StElmosFire.htm
 
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Plasma balls? You can make those in a microwave oven. My cousin is a commercial pilot. Has seen them many times when flying through clouds. Charges collect on the wing tips and discharge off the trailing edge.
 
Ivan Seeking said:
The following link shows an image of two bright orbs captured on video by a BBC news crew, in Worcestershire, England, in July 2003.
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41782

Could this be ball lightning, or perhaps a related or seemingly similar phenomenon?

See also
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20020209/bob8.asp
http://www.prometheus2.net/bl-tokyo.pdf

I will be posting a new sticky thread that will contain all references found for this subject. In these really ancient things called books, :biggrin:, I have seen many pictures of phenomena thought to be ball lightning.

From the fact that they "lingered for hours" I would suspect they are solitons (or perhaps one soliton). Study of solitons has proceeded a long way, but AFAIK they are still concentrating on small scale arenas, such as crystals with EM passing through. EM solitons in the upper atmosphere ought to be possible, but I don't know of any research on this.
 
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Ivan Seeking said:
See also
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20020209/bob8.asp
http://www.prometheus2.net/bl-tokyo.pdf

The first of your links seems to suggest ball lightning will be found close to the ground, and even though I have only skimmed the second briefly, I have seen no mention to ball lightning at altitude. This seems to suggest another phenomenon may be at work in the worcestershire lights and the UFO sighting you provided Ivan.
A quick google search shows most websites defining it as strictly low altitude occurrence (apart from this page, which while very vague mentions sightings from planes http://www.centennialofflight.gov/2003FF/lightning/types.html ). I havn't searched in any great depth, but for now my time is limited. I shall do a more comprehensive search later and let you know if I find any reference to ball lightning at altitude.

I also found an interesting article here: http://www.skeptic.com/BallLightning.html
 
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