Sky divers air resistance balances with their weight

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of forces acting on a skydiver and a car traveling at constant speed, specifically addressing the balance of forces and the implications for motion. Participants explore the conditions under which objects can maintain constant velocity despite the presence of opposing forces, with a focus on air resistance and gravitational force in the case of skydivers, and friction and engine force for cars.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how a car can travel at constant speed if the forward force equals the frictional force, suggesting that this should imply the car is stationary.
  • Others clarify that "stationary" is a specific case of constant velocity, and that zero acceleration indicates no net force acting on the object, allowing it to maintain its velocity.
  • A participant explains that when a skydiver reaches terminal velocity, the gravitational force is balanced by air resistance, resulting in no acceleration and constant downward motion.
  • Some argue that the concept of equilibrium applies to both scenarios, where the sum of forces equals zero, leading to constant velocity.
  • There are discussions about the implications of initial conditions on velocity, emphasizing that constant velocity does not necessarily mean zero velocity.
  • One participant introduces the idea of modifying the equations to include air resistance as proportional to the square of velocity, applying this to both the car and the skydiver.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of constant velocity and the relationship between forces. While there is some agreement on the definitions of forces and motion, the discussion remains unresolved regarding the interpretations of these concepts in the context of the examples provided.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference Newton's second law and the conditions for equilibrium, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of forces and the specific conditions under which the examples apply. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the interpretations of these principles.

Gughanath
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When a car is travlling at constant speed, we say that the forward force is equal to the frictional force. How is that possible? Shouldnt the car be stationary?
Samething with sky divers, when the air resistance balances with their weight, how is it possible that they still move downwards? Shouldnt the forward force be greater than the frictional force? :confused:
 
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When a skydiver jumps out of a plane, he accelerates until the friction force on him becomes as great as the gravity's force, then he stops accelerating.

"Stationnary" is only a particuliar value (0) for a constant speed, such 4 or -15, or (5,-2,4).
 
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So, what about the car then?
 
Gughanath said:
When a car is travlling at constant speed, we say that the forward force is equal to the frictional force. How is that possible? Shouldnt the car be stationary?
Samething with sky divers, when the air resistance balances with their weight, how is it possible that they still move downwards? Shouldnt the forward force be greater than the frictional force? :confused:
When a car travels with constant speed (they mean velocity!) there's no acceleration and thus no net force acting on the car. That's why the forward force and backwards force (friction here) must cancel.

No force on an object doesn't mean the object is stationary. It means that the object doesn't accelerate. It will move with constant velocity.

In the case of the skydiver, when the gravitational force is canceled against the force from air resistance the skydiver will fall with constant velocity.
 
Gughanath said:
So, what about the car then?

Zero acceleration doesn't automaticaly mean zero velocity.It means constant velocity in general,and in a very particular case,that constant in zero.For the car,the velocity is obviously different from zero.It can go to zero,if the car decelarates,which means that the friction force would be smaller that the traction force exerted by the engine.

Daniel.
 
Gughanath said:
When a car is travlling at constant speed, we say that the forward force is equal to the frictional force. How is that possible? Shouldnt the car be stationary?
Samething with sky divers, when the air resistance balances with their weight, how is it possible that they still move downwards? Shouldnt the forward force be greater than the frictional force? :confused:

If these two forces are equal in magnitude but opposite in direction, the second law of Newton states that Ma = 0. Zero acceleration means constant velocity. So if you had any initial velocity , it will remain the same.

Net force =0 does not automatically imply that the object stands still. It means the the velocity is CONSTANT. It can be zero but it is not necessary. It depends on the initial conditions


marlon
 
If you put a moving car in neutral (inhibit the forward force), friction takes over and you will deccelerate until friction dissappears. You need to give it gas to equalize friction.

Note though that from the driver's perspective, the car is stationnary. In physics, it is thus more useful to consider "moving at constant speed" vs "accelerating", rather than "moving" vs "stationnary".
 
Both of this situations are in that of equilibrium, where the sum of the forces is zero. Terminal velocity is reached when the force of drag, or air friction is equal to that of gravity. Forces cause acceleration, so if there is no acceleration there is no net force or there are forces but they cancel each other out so to speak.

Ff=frictional force between the car and the ground
Fe=force exerted by the engine of the car in the forward direction
note both models assume that air resistance is proportional to the sqaure of the instantaneous velocity.

Car: Fe-Ff=0=ma therefore there is no change in velocity and the car continues at the same speed.
Or you could modify it to include the air resistance as well...
Fe-Ff-kv^2=0=ma again there is no change in speed

Skydiver mg-kv^2=0=ma no change in velocity the skydiver falls at the same speed.
 

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