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Andre
Jan27-05, 06:00 AM
here (http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/research/trc.html)

Remember the Hockeystick of Mann et al, the mainstay of IPCC?

The prepublication. (http://www.multi-science.co.uk/mcintyre-mckitrick.pdf)

THE M&M CRITIQUE OF THE MBH98 NORTHERN HEMISPHERE CLIMATE INDEX: UPDATE AND IMPLICATIONS
Stephen McIntyre, Ross McKitrick

ABSTRACT
The differences between the results of McIntyre and McKitrick [2003] and Mann et al. [1998] can be reconciled by only two series: the Gaspé cedar ring width series and the first principal component (PC1) from the North American tree ring network. We show that in each case MBH98 methodology differed from what was stated in print and the differences resulted in lower early 15th century index values. In the case of the North American PC1, MBH98 modified the PC algorithm so that the calculation was no longer centered, but claimed that the calculation was “conventional”. The modification caused the PC1 to be dominated by a subset of bristlecone pine ring width series which are widely doubted to be reliable temperature proxies. In the case of the Gaspé cedars, MBH98 did not use archived data, but made an extrapolation, unique within the corpus of over 350 series, and is represented the start date of the series. The recent Corrigendum by Mann et al. denied that these differences between the stated methods and actual methods have any effect, a claim we show is false. We also refute the various arguments by Mann et al. purporting to salvage their reconstruction, including their claims of robustness and statistical skill. Finally, we comment on several policy issues arising from this controversy: the lack of consistent requirements for disclosure of data and methods in paleoclimate journals, and the need to recognize the limitations of journal peer review as a quality control standard when scientific studies are used for public policy.


Is revolution on?

Locrian
Jan27-05, 08:29 AM
Revolution? Maybe. But $10 says certain posters here still link to the hockeystick anyways.

I'm not sure I'd call it the mainstay of the IPCC though.

Andre
Jan27-05, 11:21 AM
Well If you would want to convince the President, what would you put in figure one of your presentation?

http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/005.htm

Andre
Jan28-05, 01:41 PM
The Dutch paper "Natuur Wetenschap & Techniek" opens the hostilities openly.

http://www.natutech.nl/nieuwsDetail.lasso?ID=2566&-session=NTses:D42BBCBC00FA5594DE6EC497AA7DC17E

"Bewijs achter Kyoto deugt niet": The proof of Kyoto is faulty

It narrates about the paper of M&M linked to previously. The result is a climate policy re-evalution congress shortly with this on the agenda.

At least the discussion is on, which is quite incredible in The Netherlands, doubting Global Warming, that is.

Quite interesting is: http://www.natutech.nl/nieuwsDetail.lasso?ID=2564&-session=NTses:D42BBCBC00FA5594DE6EC497AA7DC17E the questions to MBH and the answers of Michael Mann:

http://www.natutech.nl/nieuwsDetail.lasso?ID=2565&-session=NTses:D42BBCBC00FA5594DE6EC497AA7DC17E

Andre
Jan30-05, 01:26 AM
This may help to explain what's going on:

http://www.marshall.org/pdf/materials/188.pdf

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/research/Climate_L.pdf

edit: added a second link

Andre
Feb8-05, 06:24 AM
Steve McIntyre started a web blog here

http://www.climateaudit.org/

wolram
Feb8-05, 11:58 AM
ANDRE
Having actually reading these papers, "something i urge people to do",
I find myself at a loss, If the criticisms of Mann's papers are correct, and
they seem to be, then all he has done is produce a load of public ally miss
leading mumbo jumbo.

Andre
Feb8-05, 01:52 PM
Well at least the discussion is on. An interesting page here as well

http://davidappell.com/archives/00000579.htm#comments

I don't think that MBH actually intend to produce misleading information, but it may have been a slippery slope with several slightly biased choices together produced something unrealistic to the neutral eye.

Andre
Feb9-05, 08:55 AM
Some more usefull info of M&M (http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/research/MM-W05-background.pdf)

So it's all about that mysterious Bristle cone pine. Have a look here (http://www.eman-rese.ca/eman/reports/publications/Forest/images/page16.gif). Note that the undamaged pine tree continues on an even pace trough time, whereas the "strip bark" damaged version starts an increased growth.

Now carefully avoiding the "post hoc" fallacy but could there be a correlation between damage like stripping bark and reactive abnormal growth? And if so, could the hockeystick be mostly based on the damage of trees?

Andre
Feb18-05, 10:29 AM
For the Dutch and Belgians,

Steve McIntyre is being interviewed right now to be on Dutch Television: KRO Netwerk tonite, I believe some 9:30 PM.