I have no idea how to integrate by parts

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of integration by parts, a technique used in calculus. Participants express confusion about the method, its application, and the underlying principles, including the roles of the variables u, v, du, and dv. The conversation includes questions about how to choose these variables and the exceptions that may arise during integration.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express a lack of understanding of integration by parts, particularly in identifying u and v, and the differences between du and dv.
  • One participant suggests that u should be something easy to differentiate and v something easy to integrate, but acknowledges that practice is necessary.
  • Another participant explains the derivation of the integration by parts formula from the product rule, emphasizing that either factor can be chosen as u or v, but some choices may lead to more complex integrals.
  • There is mention of exceptions where the integral may repeat on the other side of the equation, requiring a different approach.
  • Participants discuss the relationship between integration by parts and reduction formulas, with some uncertainty about the definitions and applications of these concepts.
  • One participant critiques the traditional teaching of u, v, du, and dv as mystifying and ineffective for students.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express confusion and uncertainty about integration by parts, with no consensus on the best approach to take or the clarity of the method. Multiple competing views on how to understand and apply the technique remain present.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the need for practice and the potential for various combinations of u and v, indicating that the choice is not straightforward and may depend on the specific integral being solved. There are also references to related concepts like reduction formulas and antiderivatives, but these are not fully clarified.

Juche
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I don't think anyone in class understands it, we went over it so quick. The only thing I seem to get is that uv - (integral) vdu = (integral) udv. You are supposed to assign u, v, dv and du, but how do you know which is u and which is v? What is the difference between du and dv? Are you integrating the variable in front of du and integrating the unit in front of dv? How do you know which is which? Why does dv sometimes have one of the variables in it and sometimes another?

Beyond that there seem to be so many exceptions and substitutions that I can't begin to get a good handle on it. Is there a website that has basic info for lost people like me?
 
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http://www.math.hmc.edu/calculus/tutorials/int_by_parts/

u is easy to differentiate.
dv is easy to integrate.
(integral)v du is easier to compute that (integral)u dv.

That helps a little but I still need a lot of practice.
 
suppose you have a function [itex]f(x) = uv[/itex]
it's derivative is given by the product rule:

[itex]\frac{d}{dx}[uv] = u'v + uv'[/itex]
now if you rearrange that to
[itex]u'v = \frac{d}{dx}[uv] - uv'[/itex]
and then take the integral in respect to x of both sides
[itex]\int u'v dx= \int \frac{d}{dx}[uv] dx - \int uv' dx[/itex]
you are left with the equation for integration by parts:
[itex]\int u'v = uv - \int uv'[/itex]

so for a given function of two factors, you can choose either of them to be u' and v... It doesn't matter...

Though generally you want to make u something simple to integrate and v something that becomes simpler after differentiation.
For example [itex]\int \ln(x) dx[/itex], you should pick u' = 1 and v = ln, had you reversed those selections, you would be left with the exact same problem... meaning you still have to integrate ln(x).

The only "exception" to that rule of thumb, is that sometimes the integral will repeat on the other side:

[itex]\int f(x) dx = g(x) - \int f(x) dx[/itex]
In which case you add the righ integral to the left side and divide by the coefficient (in this case 2).
 
Last edited:
If you forget the formula, just know that it can be derived from the product rule.
Sometimes, it's even easier to do it directly like:

[tex]\int f(x)g'(x)dx=\int [\frac{d}{dx}f(x)g(x)-f'(x)g(x)]dx[/tex]
 
Just do a lot of practice problems.

Also there usually aren't many ways to choose u and v -- if you don't know, try them all!
 
Hurkyl's right,there aren't many possible combination of chosing u & dv.The problem appears in the moment when u tried them all and none goes to a result...
For example:
[tex]\int \frac{\sin x}{x} dx[/tex]
for 2 possible combinations and
[tex]\int \frac{e^{2x}}{x+6}\tan x \ dx[/tex]
for a bunch of 6 combinations...

Daniel.
 
is the uv - (integral) vdu method the same as the reduction formula? If not then what is the reduction formula?

What is the end goal of integration by parts? Is it to find the area bounded by the two functions? How do you know when you've simplified it?
 
That reduction formula (i've never heard this expression b4) is it somehow related to recurrent integrals...?Like sequences of integrals..?

The "end goal" is to find the antiderivatives among "elementary" functions...

Daniel.
 
That hopeless u,v, du,dv mysticism..
It has never taught any students anything, I strongly advise you to read Galileo's post.
 

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