If photons had S=0, not 1, what changes?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hypothetical scenario of photons possessing a spin of 0 instead of the established spin of 1. Participants explore the implications of this change on various aspects of physics, including the Standard Model and electromagnetism, while also addressing misunderstandings regarding the current definition of photon spin.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that if photons had spin 0, it would necessitate significant changes to the Standard Model and classical electromagnetism.
  • Others argue that the masslessness of photons is tied to their spin, implying that a spin of 0 would contradict their massless nature.
  • One participant emphasizes the distinction between spin values and their projections onto an axis, noting that the quantum number associated with spin projections is not solely indicative of the spin itself.
  • There are claims regarding misunderstandings about the current definition of photon spin, with some asserting that photons are defined as having spin 1, while others challenge this interpretation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the interpretation of photon spin, with some asserting that photons do not have spin 0, while others maintain that the discussion is about a hypothetical scenario. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of photons having spin 0.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved issues regarding the definitions of spin and mass in the context of photons, as well as the implications of changing the spin value on established physical theories.

what_are_electrons
If photons have S=0, not 1, what changes?

If photons were realized to have Spin=0, then what would have to change?
 
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How about HALF OF THE STANDARD MODEL...??How about ALL ELECTROMAGNETISM AT CLASSICAL LEVEL...??

Daniel.

P.S.I think QCD would be unaffected.Same with GR.
 
what_are_electrons said:
If photons were realized to have Spin=0, then what would have to change?

If you accept that photons can have spin 1,0,-1. Then your photon cannot be massless. The fact that a photon has NO spin = 0 has to do with the photonmass being equal to zero.

Keep in mind that those 1,0 and -1 values are not just the spin. They are the projection of the spin onto some axis (like the z-axis). The quantumnumber [tex]s_{z} = (+/-)s, (+/-)s-1, ..., 0[/tex] is the projection of s onto the z-axis.

marlon
 
marlon said:
If you accept that photons can have spin 1,0,-1. Then your photon cannot be massless. The fact that a photon has NO spin = 0 has to do with the photonmass being equal to zero.

Keep in mind that those 1,0 and -1 values are not just the spin. They are the projection of the spin onto some axis (like the z-axis). The quantumnumber [tex]s_{z} = (+/-)s, (+/-)s-1, ..., 0[/tex] is the projection of s onto the z-axis.

marlon
If I read correctly, you've written that photons are currently defined to have spin = 0. The nice chart made by the SLAC people list the Photon as having a Spin = 1.
 
That's your problem.You didn't read correctly.You interpreted in an incorrect way the words written by Marlon... :rolleyes:

Daniel.
 
what_are_electrons said:
If I read correctly, you've written that photons are currently defined to have spin = 0. The nice chart made by the SLAC people list the Photon as having a Spin = 1.


Dextercioby is right. You did not read my post correctly. I said the exact opposite of what you are saying right here. Photons do NOT have spin 0

marlon
 
marlon said:
Dextercioby is right. You did not read my post correctly. I said the exact opposite of what you are saying right here. Photons do NOT have spin 0

marlon
That's exactly why I asked for clarification. Thanks.
 

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