How can you aim without knowing the precise position and velocity of a particle?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of the uncertainty principle in quantum mechanics, particularly regarding how one can aim particles at each other without knowing their precise position and velocity. It explores theoretical and experimental aspects of particle interactions, including the use of particle beams and probability calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the uncertainty principle prevents precise knowledge of a particle's position and velocity, raising questions about how to aim particles at one another and gather data.
  • Others propose that instead of targeting individual particles, experiments involve shooting a swarm of particles at another swarm, which increases the probability of interactions.
  • One participant mentions that in practice, many particles are allowed to collide, rather than just two, to gather meaningful data.
  • Another point raised is the concept of luminosity, which refers to the number of particles in a beam's cross-section, and how it can be increased to enhance interaction probabilities.
  • It is suggested that interactions can be understood in terms of probability clouds, where the interaction occurs if the probability cloud of one particle overlaps with that of another.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that individual targeting of particles is not feasible due to the uncertainty principle, but there are multiple competing views on how particle interactions are practically approached, particularly regarding the use of swarms and probability calculations.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the definitions of terms like "cross-section" and "luminosity," as well as the unresolved nature of how these concepts apply in specific experimental contexts.

berty
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The uncertainty principle states that you can never know with any accuracy the precise position and velocity of a particle, because the measurement of such will alter them in an unknown way.
Therefore, if you do not know either the position or speed of a particle, how can you a) aim another particle at it? And b) gather any data?
:confused:
 
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I don't think they aim at any particular particle...they shoot a swarm at a swarm :) and the data is a swarm of particles that can then be measured...I think...Forgot to add that in increasing the count increases the probability.
 
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Hello berty,

I remember sitting in a lecture where one student asked the professor the same question. The answer was that indeed you don't let collide only 2 particles but many, as Chris Avery said.

Here's a nice animation:
http://www.gsi.de/portrait/Broschueren/Wunderland/Au+Au_2AGeV_b=0fm.mpg

http://www.gsi.de/portrait/Broschueren/Wunderland/05_e.html
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You have a large number of particle in a beam, and the beam has a cross section, and theory let's you calculate the probability that that cross section will interact with anything. With colliders you have two cross sections and a mutual probabiity.

The number of particles in the cross section is called the luninosity, and one of the main things beam physicists do is to increase the luminosity, maybe by improving the focussing. Thinks of controlling the spray from a hose with an adjustable nozzle.
 
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The physical picture is 2 probability clouds hitting each other. As long as your probability cloud of the first particle hits anywhere in the cloud of the target particle, it has hit it.
 
berty said:
The uncertainty principle states that you can never know with any accuracy the precise position and velocity of a particle, because the measurement of such will alter them in an unknown way.
Therefore, if you do not know either the position or speed of a particle, how can you a) aim another particle at it? And b) gather any data?
:confused:

In QM, you don't aim just one particle in order to make it interact with another particle. You need to think of an interaction as a beam of particles that interacts/scatters onto a beam of other particles. Quantities like the cross-section/scattering-amplitude of such a beam will give you a notion of what the probability of interaction is.

marlon
 

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