Why is time dilation expressed as t' in special relativity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the expression for time dilation in special relativity, specifically the notation t' and its derivation from the equations presented in a referenced paper. Participants explore the mathematical manipulation involved in expressing time dilation and the concept of relativistic beta.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the derivation of t' as presented in the paper, specifically the factorization involving c and the resulting expression for time dilation.
  • There is a discussion about the definition of relativistic beta, with some asserting it is simply v/c, while others reference a different interpretation.
  • Participants engage in clarifying the mathematical steps needed to factor out sqrt(c^2) from the expression, with multiple explanations provided.
  • One participant emphasizes the general mathematical principle that sqrt(ab) = sqrt(a) sqrt(b) as relevant to the discussion.
  • Another participant explains the reasoning behind multiplying by c^2/c^2 to maintain the equality of the expression during manipulation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple competing views regarding the interpretation of time dilation and the mathematical steps involved. No consensus is reached on the definitions or the derivation methods presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions and manipulations involved in the equations, indicating a reliance on specific mathematical assumptions that may not be universally accepted.

DB
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In http://www.freewebs.com/mouldy-fart/Space,%20Time%20and%20SR.pdf paper the author wrote:

[tex]t'=\sqrt{\frac{4h^2}{c^2-v^2}}=\frac{2h}{\sqrt{c^2-v^2}}[/tex]

[tex]t'=\frac{2h}{\sqrt{c^2}}\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}}[/tex]

Why so?

Also, isn't the relativistic beta considered just v/c, not as the author stated (c/v)^2?
 
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DB said:
In http://www.freewebs.com/mouldy-fart/Space,%20Time%20and%20SR.pdf paper the author wrote:

[tex]t'=\sqrt{\frac{4h^2}{c^2-v^2}}=\frac{2h}{\sqrt{c^2-v^2}}[/tex]

[tex]t'=\frac{2h}{\sqrt{c^2}}\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}}[/tex]

Why so?

Also, isn't the relativistic beta considered just v/c, not as the author stated (c/v)^2?

The author factored out sqrt(c^2) in order to get the frequently occurring expression 1/sqrt(1-(v/c)^2), which is referred to by the symbol [tex]\gamma[/tex] in most texts. I'm not sure what you mean by beta, but the unitless replacement v := v/c is common.
 
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Customarily "c=1" and no such tricks are necessary...:wink:

Daniel.
 
thanks guys, but I still can't see how
[tex]\frac{2h}{\sqrt{c^2-v^2}}=\frac{2h}{\sqrt{c^2}}\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}}[/tex]
How did he factor out sqrt(c^2) to get 1/sqrt(1-(v/c)^2)?
 
DB said:
thanks guys, but I still can't see how
[tex]\frac{2h}{\sqrt{c^2-v^2}}=\frac{2h}{\sqrt{c^2}}\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}}[/tex]
How did he factor out sqrt(c^2) to get 1/sqrt(1-(v/c)^2)?
This is basic factoring:
[tex]\frac{1}{\sqrt{c^2-v^2}} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{c^2(1-\frac{v^2}{c^2})}} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{c^2}\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{c^2}}\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}}[/tex]
 
DB said:
thanks guys, but I still can't see how
[tex]\frac{2h}{\sqrt{c^2-v^2}}=\frac{2h}{\sqrt{c^2}}\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}}[/tex]
How did he factor out sqrt(c^2) to get 1/sqrt(1-(v/c)^2)?

Since [tex]c^2[/tex] is a constant, multiply and divide by it:[tex]c^2 (c^2 - v^2)/c^2 = c^2(\frac {c^2}{c^2} - \frac {v^2}{c^2}) = c^2 ( 1 - \frac{v^2}{c^2})[/tex], no?
 
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Also, in general,

[tex]\sqrt{ab} = \sqrt{a} \sqrt{b}[/tex]

if that's what's bothering DB.
 
selfAdjoint said:
Since [tex]c^2[/tex] is a constant, multiply and divide by it:[tex]c^2 (c^2 - v^2)/c^2 = c^2(\frac {c^2}{c^2} - \frac {v^2}{c^2}) = c^2 ( 1 - \frac{v^2}{c^2})[/tex], no?
Thanks.
Ok. I see the math there, but why do we multiply by c^2/c^2?
(I know you've stated that its constant, but can you elaborate please?)
jtbell said:
Also, in general,

[tex]\sqrt{ab} = \sqrt{a} \sqrt{b}[/tex]

if that's what's bothering DB.
Nawww, don't worry bout that.
 
DB said:
Thanks.
Ok. I see the math there, but why do we multiply by c^2/c^2?
(I know you've stated that its constant, but can you elaborate please?)

c2 / c2 = 1, so you can multiply by it whenever you want without changing anything.

selfAdjoint was just showing you the intermediate steps very explicitly, making it clear that having an 'extra' c2 multiplying the expression out front is fine as long as you divide both terms in the expression by c2 to compensate. But surely you can arrive at the end result straight away, just by thinking of it as "factoring out a c2" from both terms:

[tex](c^2 - v^2) = c^2(1- \frac{v^2}{c^2})[/tex]

well that's exactly what hypermorphism and selfAdjoint already showed you.
 
  • #10
Ahhh, I see it now, thanks guys.
 

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