What causes the formation of magnetic poles in a bar magnet?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the formation of magnetic poles in a bar magnet, exploring the underlying principles of magnetism, the effects of cutting a magnet, and the process of magnetization. Participants delve into both theoretical and practical aspects of magnetism, including the role of quantum effects and electron alignment.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question what determines a magnetic pole and whether cutting a bar magnet results in two magnets, each with a north and south pole.
  • There is a suggestion that magnetic fields are continuous loops, and cutting a magnet merely reduces the size of these loops.
  • One participant proposes that quantum effects may play a role in the characteristics of permanent magnets.
  • Another participant explains that magnetism arises from the rotation or motion of charge, specifically the alignment of electron spins in a material.
  • There is a discussion about the process of magnetizing an iron rod using a permanent magnet, involving the alignment of magnetic domains within the material.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the relationship between the direction of rubbing a magnet and the resulting magnetic flow in another bar of metal.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effects of cutting a bar magnet and the mechanisms behind magnetization. There is no consensus on the specifics of how magnetic poles are formed or the implications of cutting a magnet.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on assumptions about the nature of magnetic fields and the behavior of magnetic domains, which may not be fully explored or agreed upon. The discussion includes varying levels of technical detail and understanding among participants.

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What determines a magnetic pole? Everyone has known sense elementry school that on a bar magnet (and the earth) have North and south magnetic poles... my question, what make a (bar magnet) that way? If I were to cut a bar magnet in half(between the poles) would I have one magnet that was North and one that was South? and if not, what would make them change to them both haveing North and South poles?
 
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isn't north positive and south negetive, or something
 
Magnetic Fields are continuous loops

If you cut a bar magnet in half, you will have 2 bar magnets that have north and south poles. This is a key part of electromagnetism. The magnetic fields
are continuous loops, which when you cut the bar magnet in half, you just make the loop smaller for each piece. As for why permanent bar magnets are the way they are, I believe that quantum effects play a part.
 
jbiddix said:
If you cut a bar magnet in half, you will have 2 bar magnets that have north and south poles. This is a key part of electromagnetism. The magnetic fields
are continuous loops, which when you cut the bar magnet in half, you just make the loop smaller for each piece. As for why permanent bar magnets are the way they are, I believe that quantum effects play a part.

Yes but there is something in it that determines what would and wouldn't be compatable with other poles on other magnets. and also... can a magnet's magnetic field be increased?
 
All magnetism results from rotation or motion of charge. In a permanent magnet this is the alignment of the spin properties of the electrons in the material. For a bar magnet this can be visualized as a current circulating around the long axis of the bar. Now look down one end. The current is clockwise. Look at the other end counterclockwise. If you use the the convention of positive current (opposite to electron flow as electrons have negative charge) then counterclockwise is north, clockwise is south. Hope I got that right. :biggrin: Anyway one is north the other south. Now when you break the bar in half what happens?
 
do you mean when you rub a magnet over another unmagnetised bar of metal, the direction you rub it in defines the direction of the magnetic flow
 
Magnetizing an iron rod with a permenent magnet works something like this. Throughout the structure of the iron (or steel and some alloys) are regions called domains. The entire rod is divided up into them. The spins of the electrons responsible for ferromagnetism tend to "cooperate" within a domain, for quantum mechanical reasons, iirc. In an unmagnetized rod the magnetic fields of the domains are randomly oriented. There is a property of domains such that they tend to have "memory" of their individual allignments. By moving a magnet along the rod (you don't actually have to rub it) you "drag" the domains to a common alignment. This is a simplified explanation and I'm not a magnetic materials expert, but that is the basic idea.
 

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