Conservation Principle Related to Expanding Space?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of the expanding universe on conservation principles, particularly whether some property of the universe must decline as space expands. Participants explore various theories and models related to energy conservation in the context of general relativity and cosmology.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if the expansion of space implies a conservation principle that necessitates a decline in some other property of the universe.
  • Another participant suggests that while energy is conserved, the energy density decreases due to the expansion of space, leading to a contradiction since energy is not conserved in an expanding universe.
  • A different viewpoint states that energy-momentum is conserved in the framework of general relativity, particularly in a dust-filled universe where energy is conserved in the cosmological comoving frame of reference.
  • One participant introduces the concept of a zero energy universe, where positive energy is balanced by negative potential energy, leading to a critical density universe, and notes that there are numerous models regarding energy conservation in cosmology.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conservation of energy in an expanding universe, with no consensus reached on whether energy is conserved or not across various cosmological models.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of energy conservation in cosmological contexts, with references to different models and assumptions that may influence interpretations of energy dynamics in an expanding universe.

jrdev
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Could someone comment on this:

Since space has been expanding since the Big Bang, does this mean there is a conservation principle such that some other property of the universe must be declining? If so, what is that principle and what would be declining?

Thanks.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Welcome to Physics Forums jrdev!

1) Pick your theory, and ye shall be answered!
2) If it's GR, then the folk in the SR&GR section of PF will surely give you an answer in a Planck second! (so I'm moving this thread there).
 
If energy is conserved, and space is expanding, than energy density is constantly decreasing (same amount of stuff spread out into a bigger space).

But energy is not conserved in an expanding universe, so oh well.
 
Energy-momentum is conserved in a GR understanding of the universe. If there is no pressure (a dust filled universe) then energy is conserved as measured in the cosmological comoving frame of reference.

The energy of the CMB is not conserved in such a universe as radiation pressure is equal to one third the radiation density.c2.
Garth
 
In the zero energy universe, first suggested by Ed Tryon about 50 years ago, the positive energy is always balanced by the negative potential energy. This leads to a critical density universe, that is, the gravitational potential GM/r is always equal to the Kinetic Energy (1/2M)(v^2). There are however literally hundreds of models of the universe - in some energy is conserved - in others it is not.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
5K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
6K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
1K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
3K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K