Understanding Speed and Time: The Impact of Reaching the Speed of Light

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of reaching the speed of light, particularly focusing on the relationship between speed, time, and relativity. Participants explore concepts such as time dilation, the nature of speed as observed from different reference frames, and the theoretical consequences for objects with mass approaching light speed.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that speed is defined as distance over time, questioning what occurs when one reaches the speed of light.
  • Others argue that time does not equal zero when traveling at the speed of light, suggesting that time continues to pass from the traveler's perspective.
  • Several participants discuss the implications of relativity, noting that time slows down for an observer as speed increases, but the traveler's time remains unchanged.
  • There are claims that if an object with mass could travel at the speed of light, its time relative to a stationary observer would be perceived as zero, leading to questions about the nature of time and aging.
  • Some participants mention the concept of length contraction and its relationship to time dilation, emphasizing that these effects are observed from the perspective of stationary observers.
  • There is a discussion about the gamma factor diverging as speed approaches the speed of light, indicating that massive objects cannot reach this speed.
  • One participant suggests that if a spaceship could travel close to the speed of light, the universe would age significantly while the traveler experiences little passage of time.
  • Another participant introduces the idea that gravitational effects, such as falling into a black hole, could produce similar time dilation effects as traveling at high speeds.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the implications of speed and time in relativity, with no consensus reached on the interpretation of time at light speed or the effects of relativity on aging and observation. Multiple competing views remain regarding the nature of time as perceived by different observers.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of speed and time, as well as the unresolved mathematical implications of approaching the speed of light. The discussion does not resolve the complexities surrounding the observer's frame of reference and the implications of relativistic effects.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring concepts in physics, particularly in the areas of relativity, time dilation, and the theoretical implications of traveling at or near the speed of light.

bayan
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Speed is = to distance over time.

That is fine. but what happenes when you reach speed of light? your time would =0 therefore you would have 0 infinet speed. :confused:

These are just the things that I of last night whlest I was delivering Pizza.

Can some one clear that up for me please?
 
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interesting

this is interesting, it seem that the speed of light should be undefined, however, i don't think that your time is 0, since the speed of light is a speed, it cannot be instant, 299,792,458 meters per second is the speed if I am not mistaken, well, go 299,792,458 meters in a second, a second will still have passed from your point of veiw, you til will have aged 1 second, so time does not =0, i don't think it ever can.

Adam
 
What about relativity and time? It says that if you speed up your time slows down. and also using time dilation factor we get t prime to be 0 if V is the same as C.

This is what I don't get. If the speed is mesuared by the time of abserver then time is =0 then this means there is no V for you from your frame of refrence.
 
bayan said:
What about relativity and time? It says that if you speed up your time slows down. and also using time dilation factor we get t prime to be 0 if V is the same as C.

This is why objects with mass can't move at the speed of light. Keep in mind, however, that in addition to time dilation, there is also length contraction (proportional to the same gamma factor).
 
bayan said:
What about relativity and time? It says that if you speed up your time slows down. and also using time dilation factor we get t prime to be 0 if V is the same as C.

This is what I don't get. If the speed is mesuared by the time of abserver then time is =0 then this means there is no V for you from your frame of refrence.

And? That's exactly how it is. Speed isn't necessarily measured from anyone's point of view. From our perspective, the number is c.
 
bayan said:
This is what I don't get. If the speed is mesuared by the time of abserver then time is =0 then this means there is no V for you from your frame of refrence.

You end up with c+v/0 if v is the speed of light. Divisible by 0 doesn't mean 0 though so your speed isn't 0.
 
bayan said:
What about relativity and time? It says that if you speed up your time slows down.

No, it does not, it says that your time AS OBSERVED BY A STATIONARY OBSERVER slows down. Time as observed by the traveler does NOT change.
and also using time dilation factor we get t prime to be 0 if V is the same as C.
Like wise the traveler observes NO CHANGE in length or mass in HIS FRAME of Reference.
This is what I don't get. If the speed is measured by the time of observer then time is =0 then this means there is no V for you from your frame of reference.
So the answer is that Length and time contraction only happen to OBSERVED frames of reference, never to that of the observer.
 
Last edited:
bayan said:
Speed is = to distance over time.

That is fine. but what happenes when you reach speed of light? your time would =0 therefore you would have 0 infinet speed. :confused:

We also have to consider whose reference frame we are talking about. If you are approaching the speed of light, this would be as measured by some observer who is defined to be at rest. The observer sees your clocks running slowly, but his clocks are running as normal. So your speed is distance over time as measured in his frame of reference, just like we do every day. Now turn things around. In this case we can argue that the observer is moving and you are at rest. According to SR there is no preferred obvserver. So you would measure his rate of motion, which is again normal from your frame of reference since you are the one defined to be at rest. You would both agree on the speed measured on the other but not the direction of motion. You would both agree that the other person's clocks are running slowly.
 
Integral said:
No, it does not, it says that your time AS OBSERVED BY A STATIONARY OBSERVER speeds up.

I think you mean slows down.


So the answer is that Length and time contraction only happen to OBSERVED frames of reference, never to that of the observer.

My understanding of his question was this exact point. That is, if someone is observing something move at the speed of light, that object does not age (from the stationary point of view). However, the moving object sees everything as normal, so there's an infinite chasm of sorts between the moving object and the observer. The solution would then be that nothing massive can move exactly at the speed of light.

Another way of putting it is that the gamma factor diverges:

[tex]\gamma=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}} \to \infty[/tex]
 
  • #10
Whoops, nearly simultaneous posts..
 
  • #11
SpaceTiger said:
I think you mean slows down.
Yes I did, edit in place.
 
  • #12
Ohhh! OK it is becoming more clear now. THanx.

One more question if I may ask. let's say that a mass was able to travel @ C! Then his time relative to a stationary person would equal to 0. Is that right? If so Would he/she reach eternity in a flash of a sec(if the stationary person lived that long) from stationary persons frame of refrence?

I will just make the question more clear as my english is still in its 3rd year.
A moving @ C and B @ 0. Would A reach the end of time in a flash of a second from B's frame of refrence?(assuming B lives that long)
 
  • #13
bayan said:
Ohhh! OK it is becoming more clear now. THanx.

One more question if I may ask. let's say that a mass was able to travel @ C! Then his time relative to a stationary person would equal to 0. Is that right? If so Would he/she reach eternity in a flash of a sec(if the stationary person lived that long) from stationary persons frame of refrence?

I will just make the question more clear as my english is still in its 3rd year.
A moving @ C and B @ 0. Would A reach the end of time in a flash of a second from B's frame of refrence?(assuming B lives that long)

Yes. (And yes, B will live that long.) If a man is a spaceship were able to reach almost the speed of light, the universe would grow old and die while we flew. From a stationary observer's point of view, the man in the spaceship will appear to have frozen stiff for all eternity.

Note that it is not necessary to go fast to accomplish this. As Einstein points out, acceleration due to force and acceleration due to gravity are one and the same.

If the spaceman, rather than trying to reach the speed of light, instead aims his ship into a black hole, the same thing will happen. As he descends toward the event horizon, the universe around him will speed up, and age and die while he falls. From outside he will appear to slow down and ultimately stop, poised on the edge of the event horizon for all eternity.
 
  • #14
Big picture: Relativity actually helps our odds for interstellar travel, at least as far as time is concerned. It means that if you can get close enough to the speed of light, the universe becomes a very small place and you can travel to places that seem (to us on earth) to be too far away to reach in a lifetime.

Incidentally, that's the premise of "Planet of the Apes," which I saw for the first time (the original) two nights ago...
 
  • #15
Arsonade said:
299,792,458 meters per second is the speed if I am not mistaken
That's kilometers per second...
Look at the gravity equivalent of velocity. If you fall to the event horizon of a black hole, it's all over in a flash for you. To someone watching, you remain suspended there forever.
 
  • #16
russ_watters said:
Big picture: Relativity actually helps our odds for interstellar travel, at least as far as time is concerned. It means that if you can get close enough to the speed of light, the universe becomes a very small place and you can travel to places that seem (to us on earth) to be too far away to reach in a lifetime.

You can get anywhere in a lifetime (assuming you can accelerate to the appropriate speed), but it takes a ridiculous amount of time to communicate any information back to your home planet.
 
  • #17
Danger said:
That's kilometers per second...
Ignore that stupid remark. There are some burned-out pixels in my monitor. When I first read that figure, the rightmost comma looked like a decimal point. :redface:
 
  • #18
So person B would see A as still for ever! and A would actually see what had happened before(travels back in time)? And after a while he may be able to see "BigBang"?
 
  • #19
Danger said:
"...299,792,458 meters per second is the speed if I am not mistaken..."

That's kilometers per second...
No. He was right. 299,792,458 meters per second = 299,792.458 kilometers per second

Danger said:
If you fall to the event horizon of a black hole, it's all over in a flash for you. To someone watching, you remain suspended there forever.
Yes, although, while you are falling to the event horizon, you will (theoretically) 'see' the universe age and die.

More practically, if you manage a trajectory that skirts the black hole, near-grazing the event horizon, but with enough residual velocity to escape again, you will emerge into a universe that is old and dying.


I can point you at some good books that explore ideas like this. My fave is Larry Niven's "A World out of Time". The character goes on a round trip to the galactic core and returns to an Earth that is 3 million years older.

(Cats have evolved to be legless, like a snake - just a furry head attached to a 6 foot tail. More loveable; you "wear" them like a feather boa. :smile: )

.
 

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