A question about an explanation of the electrical resistance of perfect lattice

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the electrical resistance of a perfect periodic ion lattice, exploring theoretical explanations and potential verifications of the phenomenon. Participants examine concepts related to wave propagation in periodic potentials, specifically in the context of quantum mechanics and solid-state physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a perfect periodic ion lattice has no electrical resistance, referencing the Schrödinger equation and Bloch's theorem as foundational to this claim.
  • Others question the existence of quantitative verification for the explanation of wave propagation without attenuation in a periodic array of scatterers, suggesting it remains an idealization of electron transport.
  • One participant expresses difficulty in summing scattered waves to achieve the expected result of attenuation-free propagation, seeking clarification on their approach.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of mathematical consistency in verifying theories and challenges the method of summing waves without considering the periodic boundary conditions inherent to Bloch's theorem.
  • Concerns are raised about the setup of the problem, particularly regarding the application of periodic boundary conditions and the selection of an origin for the analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not reach consensus on the verification of the explanation for no electrical resistance in a perfect lattice, with multiple competing views and unresolved questions regarding the theoretical framework and mathematical treatment of the problem.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on idealized models, unresolved mathematical steps in the summation of scattered waves, and the necessity of adhering to Bloch boundary conditions for accurate results.

wenty
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Perfect periodic ion lattice has no electrical resistance.As we know,this can be easily shown by solving the Schrödinger equation using Bloch therom.Yet,another explanation is that "in a periodic array of scatterers a wave can propagate without attenuation because of the coherent constructive interference of the scattered waves."(Ashcroft,Solid state physics)

Does anyone know where to find the quantitative verification of this explanation,for example,in 1D periodic sqare well potential?
 
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wenty said:
Perfect periodic ion lattice has no electrical resistance.As we know,this can be easily shown by solving the Schrödinger equation using Bloch therom.Yet,another explanation is that "in a periodic array of scatterers a wave can propagate without attenuation because of the coherent constructive interference of the scattered waves."(Ashcroft,Solid state physics)

Does anyone know where to find the quantitative verification of this explanation,for example,in 1D periodic sqare well potential?

Unless I missed something, there isn't any quantitative verification of such things, because it is an idealization of electron transport in metals. It is useful to describe various first-order effects such as the Drude model and such, but you will never get the "no electrical resistance" part being experimentally verified, at least, not with the model here (superconductivity has a different model).

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
Unless I missed something, there isn't any quantitative verification of such things, because it is an idealization of electron transport in metals. It is useful to describe various first-order effects such as the Drude model and such, but you will never get the "no electrical resistance" part being experimentally verified, at least, not with the model here (superconductivity has a different model).

Zz.

Then what about verify this explanation theoretically?
 
wenty said:
Then what about verify this explanation theoretically?

How does one "verify" a theory theoretically? If it is mathematically consistent, it's "verified".

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
How does one "verify" a theory theoretically? If it is mathematically consistent, it's "verified".

Zz.
Sorry,Maybe I failed to express my thought properly.

What I mean is that:

I summed the scattered waves and can't get the result that "wave can propagate without attenuation".I don't know what's wrong,so I wonder if I can find some reference or some calculation based on this idea.
 
wenty said:
Sorry,Maybe I failed to express my thought properly.

What I mean is that:

I summed the scattered waves and can't get the result that "wave can propagate without attenuation".I don't know what's wrong,so I wonder if I can find some reference or some calculation based on this idea.

Let me understand this correctly. You have Bloch wavefunction (or is it a sum of Bloch wavefunctions?), and you want to know how it can propagate without "attenuation"? You have to admit that you are not giving us a lot to go on here. Unless you want to tell me what exactly you're "summing", I will have to continue making guesses on what exactly you are doing.

Zz.
 
Take periodic square barrier potential for example.As illustrated in the figure,a plane wave Exp(ikx) incident on barrier 1,and if there is no other barrier the transmitted wave and reflected wave is T*Exp(ikx) and R*Exp(-ikx).When there are other barriers the scattered waves will be scattered and then scattered once and once.I add up all of these waves and can't get the result that the Exp(-ikx) terms canceled.I want to know what's wrong?
 

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wenty said:
Take periodic square barrier potential for example.As illustrated in the figure,a plane wave Exp(ikx) incident on barrier 1,and if there is no other barrier the transmitted wave and reflected wave is T*Exp(ikx) and R*Exp(-ikx).When there are other barriers the scattered waves will be scattered and then scattered once and once.I add up all of these waves and can't get the result that the Exp(-ikx) terms canceled.I want to know what's wrong?

Just how exactly did you add all of them? I mean, your "x" is only valid for a particular square barrier. Other square barrier are at locations x+R, x+2R, x+3R... and x-R, x-2R, x-3R, ... where R is the lattice constant. You then have the Bloch boundary condition where [tex]\Psi (x+nR) = \Psi (x)[/tex]. So considering all of these necessary criteria, I do not know how you "add" these things.

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
Just how exactly did you add all of them? I mean, your "x" is only valid for a particular square barrier. Other square barrier are at locations x+R, x+2R, x+3R... and x-R, x-2R, x-3R, ... where R is the lattice constant. You then have the Bloch boundary condition where [tex]\Psi (x+nR) = \Psi (x)[/tex]. So considering all of these necessary criteria, I do not know how you "add" these things.

Zz.

I'll reconsider it.Thank you very much!
 
  • #10
Also notice that you are not using periodic (BvK) boundary conditions in the way you set up the problem - in fact, it's not clear how you pick an origin. So, you will not get Bloch solutions going about it this way.
 

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