Why Does Hooke's Law Favor Cosine Over Exponential Functions?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical underpinnings of Hooke's Law, specifically why the solutions to the differential equation governing spring motion favor cosine functions over exponential functions. Participants explore the implications of the negative sign in the equation and the role of complex exponentials in the solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the second derivative of the displacement function must equal the function itself, leading to a search for appropriate functions.
  • Another participant points out that complex exponentials, specifically e^{i\omega t} and e^{-i\omega t}, serve as independent solutions that can represent the same physical phenomena as cosine and sine functions.
  • A participant explains that the negative sign in the differential equation necessitates the use of complex exponentials to derive real solutions, which are more applicable in certain physics contexts.
  • There is a question raised about the origin of the term \omega t in the solutions, with a participant clarifying that it relates to the angular frequency of oscillation and the need for dimensionless quantities in the equations.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the signs of k and m do not affect the overall solution structure, and discusses the general form of the solution to the ordinary differential equation (ODE) involved.
  • One participant elaborates on the necessity of including \omega in the cosine function to satisfy the differential equation, contrasting it with a simpler case that fails to meet the conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the negative sign and the role of complex exponentials, indicating that multiple competing perspectives exist regarding the mathematical treatment of the problem. The discussion remains unresolved on certain points, particularly concerning the interpretation of the constants involved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the importance of ensuring that solutions have physical meaning, such as being real-valued, which adds a layer of complexity to the discussion. The mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the constants and their signs are also noted as areas that could lead to different interpretations.

whozum
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I don't know anything about diff eq but:

[tex]F = ma = -kx(t)[/tex]

[tex]a = \frac{d^2(x)}{dt^2}[/tex]

[tex]-kx(t) = m\frac{d^2(x)}{dt^2}[/tex]

So we need a function whos second derivative is the same as the function itself.

I know hooke's law says the function is [tex]cos(\omega t)[/tex] but I don't see why [tex]e^x[/tex] doesn't satisfy the original condition.

Can anyone shed some light?
 
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It does,but with a complex exponent.

[tex]e^{i\omega t},e^{-i\omega t}[/tex]

are the 2 independent solutions which form a basis in the solution space.

Daniel.
 
It's because of the negative sign on the left side. This is why the complex exponent is required as dexter indicated (differentiate twice to get a factor of [itex](\pm i)^2 = -1[/itex] in front). The complex exponential solutions [itex]e^{i\omega t}[/itex] and [itex]e^{-i\omega t}[/itex] are equivalent to the usual [itex]\cos{\omega t}[/itex] and [itex]\sin{\omega t}[/itex], and in fact are more useful in some situations (e.g. barrier penetration in quantum mechanics).
 
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So you technically could use [tex]e^{i\omega t}[/tex] ? I was thinking you could just associate the negative with the constant k/m, but you can't because mass isn't negative and a spring coefficient is the same, right?

A more physics question, where does the [tex]\omega t[/tex] come from, instead of just t?
 
Nope.U need to adjust the complex exponentials & constants of integration,as to cancel away all imaginary parts of the final solution.Remember that this is a physics problem whose solutions have physical meaning,namely length which must be real...

As for [itex]\omega t[/itex],it's simple:check the units in SI...That product is adimensional (the radian & the steradian are not standard units).That [itex]\omega[/itex] is the angular frequency of oscillation...

Daniel.
 
The signs of [itex]k[/itex] and [itex]m[/itex] are immaterial. If they are negative or positive in one place, then they are in any other as well. You can't "associate" the negative sign with them.

The solution to the ODE

[tex]\frac{d^2x}{dt^2} = -\alpha x(t)[/tex]

is always

[tex]x(t) = Ae^{-i\omega t} + Be^{i\omega t}[/tex]

where [itex]\omega = \sqrt{\alpha}[/itex]. If [itex]\alpha[/itex] happens to be negative then taking the square root will give you another [itex]i[/itex] and you'll get real exponents once simplified.

Alternatively you could group constants and just solve

[tex]\frac{d^2x}{dt^2} = \beta x(t)[/tex]

where [itex]\beta = -\alpha[/itex]. This would have the solution

[tex]x(t) = Ae^{\gamma t} + Be^{-\gamma t}[/tex]

where [itex]\gamma = \sqrt{\beta} = \sqrt{-\alpha} = i\sqrt{\alpha} = i \omega[/itex] so you get the same result as before.

In the case of your particular equation, you just have [itex]\alpha = \frac{k}{m}[/itex] so you get the familiar

[tex]\omega = \sqrt{\frac{k}{m}}[/tex]


As to your question, mathematically, the reason that you need the [itex]\omega t[/itex] instead of just [itex]t[/itex] is that otherwise your "solutions" simply won't satisfy the DE.

Take [itex]x(t) = \cos{t}[/itex]. Then

[tex]\frac{dx}{dt} = -\sin{t} \Longrightarrow \frac{d^2x}{dt^2} = -\cos{t} = -x(t) \neq -\frac{k}{m}x(t)[/itex]<br /> <br /> on the other hand taking [itex]x(t) = \cos{\omega t}[/itex] gives<br /> <br /> [tex]\frac{dx}{dt} = -\omega \sin{\omega t} \Longrightarrow \frac{d^2x}{dt^2} = -\omega^2 \cos{\omega t} = -\omega^2 x(t) = -\frac{k}{m}x(t)[/itex]<br /> <br /> as you wanted.<br /> <br /> This makes sense from a physics perspective, since I don't think you'd really expect periodic things in nature to have periods of [itex]2\pi[/itex] (this would make things way too easy! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":smile:" title="Smile :smile:" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":smile:" />)[/tex][/tex]
 
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