Find Spring Constant for Two Springs in Series

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the effective spring constant for two springs arranged in series. Participants explore the mathematical relationships involved and compare their approaches to deriving the formula for the combined spring constant.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a formula for the effective spring constant, k3, for two springs in series as k3 = 2k1k2/(k1+k2), based on their derivation.
  • Another participant agrees that the initial approach looks correct but suggests exploring a similar expression for N springs.
  • A different participant argues that there is an error in the original derivation, indicating an extra factor of 2 and providing an alternative formula for springs in series as 1/KT = 1/K1 + 1/K2.
  • One participant acknowledges their mistake in the derivation and corrects their understanding of the forces acting on the springs.
  • A later reply mentions that the derivation for multiple springs can be easily extended from the current discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of the initial derivation, with some agreeing on the need for corrections and others proposing alternative formulations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact formulation of the effective spring constant.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the behavior of springs in series and the application of formulas may not be explicitly stated, leading to potential misunderstandings. The derivations depend on the definitions of spring constants and the conditions under which they are applied.

StephenPrivitera
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Two springs are in series. You know the constants for each individual spring. How do you find the spring constant for the spring system?

|-OOOOO---o---OOOOOOOOOO-| --->F
In the middle of the spring system (where the "o" is) the net force is zero and we have
k1x1=k2x2 disregarding sign
F=k3x3
x3 =x2+x1
F=k3(x2+x1)
F=k3(k1x1/k2+x1)
F=k3*x1/k2*(k1+k2)
but F=k1x1+k2x2
F=2k1x1
2k1x1=k3*x1/k2*(k1+k2)
2k1k2=k3(k1+k2)
k3=2k1k2/(k1+k2)

Is this right?
 
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Looks OK.
Now try to find a similar expression for N springs..:)
 
Looks to me like you have an extra factor of 2 in there. Springs in series add as Resistors in parallel. So

1/KT = 1/K1+ 1/K2

OR


KT= (K1+K2)/(K1K2)

Also Springs in parallel add as resistors in series.

KT=K1+K2

I do not have time to do the derivation now. Should be able to post it later to day. A key is that in the series case the force seen by each spring is equal, while in the parallel case the extensions are equal.
 
Originally posted by Integral
Looks to me like you have an extra factor of 2 in there. Springs in series add as Resistors in parallel. So

1/KT = 1/K1+ 1/K2
Ah, I see my mistake. I have F=k1x1+k2x2 but F=k2x1=k1x1. I need to be more careful.
 
OK, that looks better!
http://home.comcast.net/~rossgr1/Math/Spring_constant.PDF is my derivation. As long as I was at it I did the case for parallel springs also.

BTW: it would be trivial to extend this to multiple springs.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thank you, Integral. I have put your work into my physics notebook (hope you don't mind).
 

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