Is a photon akin to a battle ship plowing through the foam

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the analogy of a photon as a battleship moving through foam, exploring concepts related to energy transfer, mass, gravity, and quantum gravity. Participants engage in theoretical speculation about the nature of photons, mass, and their interactions with gravity, as well as the implications of the Higgs field and potential undiscovered particles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a photon might be analogous to a battleship plowing through foam, proposing that it imparts energy through a damped local oscillation.
  • Another participant questions how mass couples to quantum gravity, pondering whether photons, which do not lose energy over vast distances, have an effect on quantum gravity.
  • A different viewpoint describes the standard model where particles travel frictionlessly until mass interacts with the Higgs field, creating inertia, likening photons to smooth ball bearings on a fuzzy carpet.
  • There is a mention of the Higgs boson and a query about its existence, indicating interest in particle physics.
  • Participants discuss the potential existence of other particles like axions and gravitons, speculating on the outcomes of experiments at the LHC and Tevatron.
  • One participant raises a question about whether mass is attractive to gravity or if gravity attracts mass, suggesting a secondary action of disturbance as mass travels through spacetime.
  • Another participant refers to a paper on a fringe theory titled "No motion no gravity," questioning the frame of reference in which this theory applies.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of speculative ideas without reaching consensus. There are multiple competing views on the nature of photons, mass, and gravity, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some claims depend on specific definitions and assumptions about mass, gravity, and quantum gravity, which are not fully articulated. The discussion includes references to theoretical concepts that may not be widely accepted or established.

wolram
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Is a photon akin to a battle ship plowing through the foam. not loosing
energy but imparting it, via its bow wave, maybe undetectable to date as
the disturbance would be Miniscule, I do not mean gravitational radiation,
more a damped local oscillation as the photon pushes through the foam.
 
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How does mass couples to QG? I was just thinking that, as photons do not loose energy when traveling great distances across the universe, "QG in the vacuum has no effect on them", but do they have an effect on it, a sort of reverse of gravity attracting mass. Mass attracts gravity.
So every mass pulls on gravity, as gravity is "space time", sufficient
mass will distort it, causing any mass that is near by to infall into the
distortion.
 
May be the question is stupid, ill informed, but what the hey, no answers
is just as bad.
 
In something approaching the standard model, everything cruises along through space frictionlessly at the speed of light until they mass starts grabbing at it through the Higgs field creating the inertia effect of mass. Thus, photons would be analogous to smooth ball bearings rolling down a fuzzy carpet hill, while every other kind of fundamental particle in space would have a higher or lower density of little velcro hooks corrosponding to the particle's mass that would slow their descent.

I can't speak to LQG, however.
 
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Higgs field hmmm.. Higgs boson anyone?

Where are they?

Garth
 
They are hiding along with mr axoin mr graviton etc etc etc.
 
LHC will find them or deny them, unless Tevatron, in its last gasp, does that first.
 
These particles may or may not exist, but the question was, put another
way, is mass attractive to gravity, or gravity attractive to mass? could
mass couple to quantum gravity via a secondary action of a disturbance
caused as it travels through space time?
Akin to a particle creating a vortex that "captures" any nearby particles
creating a chain reaction.
I can not explain any better but i hope some one can understand what
i am trying to ask.
thanks for replys so far.
 
http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0205196

I posted this in astro and cosmology, It is a similar idea to mine, it is called
No motion no gravity, it may be a bit fringe but so am i.
 
  • #10
wolram said:
http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0205196

I posted this in astro and cosmology, It is a similar idea to mine, it is called
No motion no gravity, it may be a bit fringe but so am i.
'No motion' in which frame of reference may I ask?

Garth
 
  • #11
Garth if you are going to be technical i guess frames of reference are
are a moot point in this theory, as nothing is moving in one frame.
 
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