Riemann sum / difference quotient

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between the difference quotient and the Riemann sum, particularly how one might conceptually "undo" the other. Participants explore the mathematical definitions and implications of these concepts, referencing the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus and the nature of integration and differentiation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that working a difference quotient backwards might be similar to working a Riemann sum forward, but expresses skepticism about this assumption.
  • Another participant explains the connection between the Riemann sum and the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus, detailing the definitions of the Riemann integral and the derivative.
  • A later reply emphasizes that the relationship between integration and differentiation is not immediately obvious, suggesting a deeper complexity in their connection.
  • Another participant expresses appreciation for the proof provided regarding the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus.
  • One participant introduces a separate topic about prime pairs and proposes a modular arithmetic approach to understanding their distribution, although this is not directly related to the main discussion on Riemann sums and difference quotients.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between the difference quotient and the Riemann sum, with some exploring the mathematical proofs while others introduce unrelated topics. There is no consensus on the initial question posed regarding the operations of the two concepts.

Contextual Notes

Some definitions and assumptions are not fully explored, particularly regarding the limits of the Riemann sum and the conditions under which the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus applies. The introduction of modular arithmetic and prime pairs adds complexity but diverges from the primary focus of the discussion.

noslen
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How does the difference quotient undo what the Riemann sum does or vice versa. In terms of the two formulas?

I would assume that working a difference quotient backwards would be similar to working a Riemann sum forward, but in reality as the operations go this couldn't be further from the truth.

any takers?
 
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Let's take a look. First note that the Riemann sum deals with definite integrals, so it makes the most sense to look at this from the perspective of the second part of the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus, which states (for sufficiently well behaved functions f and F),

[tex]F(x) = \int_a^x f(t) \ dt \Longrightarrow \frac{dF}{dx} = f(x).[/tex]

We'll see if we can prove this from the definitions of the Riemann integral and the derivative. I'll use one of the more simple definitions of the Riemann integral to make this easy on me (which of course means that this is only valid in a limited range of circumstances), namely, letting [itex]x_i^* \in \left[a + (b-a)(i-1)/n, \ a + (b-a)i/n\right][/itex], I define

[tex]\int_a^b f(t) \ dt = \lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} \sum_{i = 1}^n f(x_i^*) \frac{b-a}{n},[/tex]

for any [itex]f(t)[/itex] continuous on [a, b].

Also, recall the definition of the derivative,

[tex]\frac{df}{dx} = \lim_{h \rightarrow 0} \frac{f(x+h)-f(x)}{h}.[/tex]

We'll approach this directly. Let

[tex]F(x) = \int_a^x f(t) \ dt[/tex]

be a differentiable function. Then using the definition above we have

[tex]\frac{dF}{dx} = \lim_{h \rightarrow 0} \frac{\int_a^{x+h} f(t) \ dt - \int_a^x f(t) \ dt}{h}[/tex]

[tex]= \lim_{h \rightarrow 0} \frac{\int_x^{x+h} f(t) \ dt}{h}.[/tex]

I now substitute in using the definition for the Riemann integral that I mentioned above, to get (for [itex]x_i^* \in \left[ x + \frac{(x+h-x)(i-1)}{n}, \ x+\frac{(x+h-x)i}{n} \right] = \left[ x+\frac{h(i-1)}{n}, \ x+\frac{hi}{n}\right][/itex]),

[tex]\frac{dF}{dx} = \lim_{h \rightarrow 0} \frac{\lim_{n\rightarrow \infty} \sum_{i=1}^n f(x_i^*)\frac{(x+h)-x}{n}}{h} = \lim_{h \rightarrow 0}\frac{\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty}\sum_{i=1}^n f(x_i^*) \frac{h}{n}}{h}[/tex]

and using the properties of limits and series I can bring the h in the denominator inside the sum to get

[tex]\frac{dF}{dx} = \lim_{h\rightarrow 0}\lim_{ n \rightarrow \infty} \sum_{i=1}^n f(x_i^*)\frac{1}{n}.[/tex]

Here the only thing depending on [itex]h[/itex] is [itex]x_i^*[/itex], and [itex]\lim_{h \rightarrow 0} x_i^* = x[/itex], so we just get

[tex]\frac{dF}{dx} = \lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} \sum_{i=1}^n f(x)\frac{1}{n} = \lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} f(x) \sum_{i=1}^n \frac{1}{n} = f(x)\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} \sum_{i=1}^n \frac{1}{n}[/tex]

[tex]= f(x)\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} 1 = f(x),[/tex]

as claimed.
 
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And by the way, I should note that the FTC is not an obvious result. As you say, at first glance you wouldn't think, from the definitions, that integration and differentiation would have any sort of "special" relationship.
 
thanks man. sweet proof
 
Actually I think we can also prove that there are infinitely many prime pairs also using a related phenomenon. But I'm very rusty on formal proofs, so maybe one of you experts could formalize on what I'm saying will work.

There are three types of primes: (a) 2 and 3, (b) those which operated on by mod(6) = 5, and (c) those which under mod (6) = 1.

In other words, every multiple of six, 6n, has a pair of potential primes at 6n +/- 1, as noticed by eratosthenes.

However, no one seems to have used modular arithmetic as I suggest in my paper
http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/french...article7en.html
to separate the primes above 3 into two series, equalling 1 and 5 in mod6, or, you could think of them as equalling 7 and 5 in mod6. There is no interdependency between the primeness of the terms of the two series, 6n+1 and 6n-1, and both series display the only candidates for primeness, and contain all primes, and all their members -are- primes unless factorizable by an inferior member of the same series.

See the new "modulus 6 clock spiral" which I propose to replace Ulam's spiral, in the article, and you'll see what I mean.

Peter
 

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