How Does the Geometry of Bird V Formation Enhance Energy Efficiency?

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    Bird Physics
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the geometry of the V formation used by migrating birds and its implications for energy efficiency. Participants explore the physics behind this formation, including concepts of air pressure, vortex dynamics, and potential applications to other energy systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the lead birds create a displacement of air that helps pull along the birds at the rear, proposing a connection to energy production geometry.
  • Another participant compares the bird formation to canoeing behind a large boat, explaining how the pressure wave created by the lead bird can assist the following birds.
  • A third participant introduces the concept of wingtip vortices, explaining how the pressure differences around a bird's wings can enhance lift for birds flying behind the lead bird.
  • One participant notes the similarity between wingtip vortices and wake turbulence, describing how the lead bird may cycle through positions to optimize energy use.
  • Another participant expresses interest in studying the vortex system further and converting it to a water system analogy based on the V formation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the basic principles of how the V formation aids in energy efficiency through air pressure dynamics and vortex interactions. However, the discussion includes various interpretations and applications of these principles, indicating that multiple views remain on the specifics of the mechanics involved.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the mechanics of air pressure and vortex behavior are not fully explored, and the discussion does not resolve the complexities of translating these concepts into other systems.

Jug
Hello! New here. Interested in the geometry of the V formation by migrating birds. The apparent physics of the thing is that the displacement of air caused by the lead birds hepls to pull along the more spent birds at the rear of the formation - thus creating an energy flow. As an energy resources consultant I consider the geomatry of the formation as might relate to an angle of incidence relevant to other means of energy production.

Any bird ladies and gentlemen here?
 
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I don't really know much about birds however I may be able shed some light on the "apparent physics" that pulls along the more spent birds.

The same principle applies when you are going canoeing and a large boat goes past. Now the large boat creates a wave as it pushes through the water, and if you can keep up with the larger boat ( assuming it isn't going too fast ) then you can go just in front of the wave and it will help push you along.

The same principle applies to the birds, the lead bird ( the one at the front ) has to push through the air. In doing this he creates a slight increase in the air pressure in front of his wings.

So the other more spent birds can either fly just in front of this pressure wave and be pushed by it, or more likely in regards to what you are saying fly slightly behind it.

Now because there is an increase in pressure, there is also a decrease in pressure just behind it. A little like when a bus goes past and the vacuum causes you to almost lose your hat if you are to close.

It is most likely that the more spent birds use this vacuum just behind the pressure wave to help pull them along.
 
Wingtip vortices.

Air under a wing is at a higher pressure than air over a wing. This air 'spills out' from the lower surface toward the upper surface, creating a vortex which vastly reduces lift. Flying just behind and outside the bird in front means the vortex coming off of its wing will hit your wing on the upswing of the vortex, increasing your lift by disrupting your own vortex.
 
Thanks to you both - good information. Will study the vortex system closer and attempt to convert it to a water system using the V formation as giving an angle of incidence.
 
Originally posted by Jug
Thanks to you both - good information. Will study the vortex system closer and attempt to convert it to a water system using the V formation as giving an angle of incidence.

Just a note; The two phenomena are so similar that wingtip vortices are also reffered to as "wake turbulence". As the birds travell along, the lead bird will eventually pull out of his position and drift back to the last position where progress is easiest. From there, he will work his way forward (as others take lead and then fall in behind) until he is once again in lead, but more rested.
 
Yes, Lurch, that is the idea of it sure nuff - an energy transfer system!
 

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