VERY hard integral (atleast to me)

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    Hard Integral
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the integration of the function C(t)e^-rt, where C(t) is defined as 50t^1/2, over the interval from 0 to 8. Participants explore various methods for solving the integral, including infinite series and integration by parts, while also discussing the properties of the error function (erf).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using an infinite series method based on the exponential function, questioning how to incorporate 50t^1/2 into this approach.
  • Another participant proposes a substitution method with u = √t and suggests using integration by parts along with the definition of the error function.
  • There is a discussion about the normalization of the error function, with one participant pointing out that the definition provided is not normalized to unity.
  • Participants debate the significance of constants in definitions of functions, with one arguing that it is a matter of convention and that constants do not affect the function's utility.
  • There is a mention of different definitions of the error function, indicating that some authors may define it without the leading factor of 2/√π, suggesting that multiple definitions exist.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the discussion of new versus established functions and the implications of naming conventions in mathematics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the normalization of the error function and the role of constants in mathematical definitions. There is no consensus on the best approach to the integral or the definitions discussed, indicating that multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved assumptions regarding the integration method and the definitions of mathematical functions, as well as the potential for varying interpretations of the error function across different sources.

Techman07
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I am trying to integrate from 0 to 8

C (t)e^-rt


and C(t) is equal to 50t^1/2 (50 times the square root of t)


I was thinking I could use an infinite series method, the one in the form of e to the x, and my x would be -rt. But if I decide to go that route, then what would I do with 50t^1/2 ?

What do you all think?
 
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Make the sub [itex]u=\sqrt{t}[/itex] and then part integration and use the definition of "erf".

Daniel.
 
Yes I think part integration is the way to go.

In case you have no idea what erf(x) is, here is a link to read up on.

[tex]erf(x) = \frac{2}{\sqrt{\pi}}\int_{0}^{z}e^{-t^2}dt[/tex]

Jameson
 
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Your definition is not normalized to unity. We like those kind of definitions, though.

Daniel.
 
I'm sorry, I don't quite understand how a definition is normalized to unity. Please explain. Is the variables, lack of defining things...?
 
I meant the function. For your "erf" [itex]\lim_{x\rightarrow +\infty} \ erf(x) =\frac{1}{2}[/itex].

Daniel.

P.S.You should have picked the constant as to make the limit "+1".
 
Apologies then to all. I was just putting my two cents of what I knew in. As usual Daniel, you know much more than myself.
 
It's not compulsory to use a constant before the integral, u can drop it. But we usually have conventions when defining special functions.

We can define

[tex]\tan x=:\sqrt{\pi\sqrt{e\sqrt{\varphi}}} \ \frac{\sin x}{\cos x}[/tex]

,but the convention is to choose the constant =1.

Daniel.
 
Could you explain why? Why doesn't the constant make a difference?
 
  • #10
Why would it? You can define the function

[tex]eerf (x) =\int_{0}^{x} \exp\left(-t^{2}\right) \ dt[/tex].

Daniel.
 
  • #11
First of all, you need to address it with a diferent name."Tangent" and the shortening "tan" are already used for a function. Then you need to make your function known and accepted. Since it's basically a rescaling of an already existing object, I'm sure everyone will reject it. As i said, it's all a matter of conventions and definitions. It's the majority of mathematicians that decide whether your convention/definition or "X"'s is better and should be accepted.

I think this is running off topic and it shouldn't. If i didn't make my point clear, that's it.

Daniel.
 
  • #12
I see your point. I was just confused if you were discussing new functions or ones previously established.

From Mathworld - "Note that some authors (e.g., Whittaker and Watson 1990, p. 341) define erf(z) without the leading factor of [itex]\frac{2}{\sqrt{\pi}}[/itex]"

So it seems both definitions are acceptable.
 
  • #13
dextercioby said:
First of all, you need to address it with a diferent name."Tangent" and the shortening "tan" are already used for a function. Then you need to make your function known and accepted. Since it's basically a rescaling of an already existing object, I'm sure everyone will reject it. As i said, it's all a matter of conventions and definitions. It's the majority of mathematicians that decide whether your convention/definition or "X"'s is better and should be accepted.
For example, if I had my way, sin(x) would be denoted by $(x), and cos(x) would be denoted by ©(x). :biggrin:
 

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