Special Relativity & General Relativity: Length, Time, and Motion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of length contraction, time dilation, and the effects of acceleration and gravity within the frameworks of special relativity (SR) and general relativity (GR). Participants explore the implications of the equivalence principle and the metrics associated with different observers, including those in constant velocity motion and those experiencing acceleration.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that special relativity deals with constant velocity motion and implies length contraction, time dilation, and increased mass-energy.
  • Others mention that general relativity indicates the indistinguishability of acceleration and gravity, questioning whether gravity also contracts length.
  • A participant references the Schwarzschild metric to support the idea that gravity affects time dilation but not necessarily length contraction.
  • Another participant introduces the Rindler metric, suggesting that while acceleration affects time perception, it does not lead to gravitational length contraction.
  • There is a claim that the equivalence principle does not always apply, particularly regarding the derivation of length contraction from gravity.
  • Some participants propose that length contraction due to gravity can be understood through the equivalence principle, but others challenge this view, emphasizing the need for a complete analysis of Einstein's field equations.
  • One participant compares general relativity to Pythagoras' theorem, suggesting a geometric interpretation of the relationships involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the equivalence principle and the relationship between acceleration and length contraction. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the equivalence principle and its implications for length contraction, indicating that further exploration of the metrics and Einstein's field equations is necessary.

yourdadonapogostick
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special relativity has to do with constant velocity motion, spacetime, and observers. it is a special case of general relativity (hence the name 'special'). it says that constant velocity motion contracts lenth, dilates time, and increases massenergy.

general relativity says the the effects of acceleration and gravity are indistinguishable. i know that gravity dilates time, but does it contract length?
 
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so, acceleration contracts length as well...
 
yourdadonapogostick said:
so, acceleration contracts length as well...

Hmmm - no. Just as the Schwarzschild metric is the standard metric for an observer on a massive spherical body, the Rindler metric is the standard metric for an accelerating obsever. This metric for someone accelerating with an acceleration 'g' in the z direction is

dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 - (1+gz)dt^2

Looking at the metric coefficients, this means that an accelerating observer sees time slow down or speed up depending on whether an object is "above" him or "below" him (the value of 'z') - an effect quite comparable to gravitational time dilation.

But the spatial metric is not affected - in this case there is no gravitational length contraction.

That's why the url I linked to noted that "you can't predict this from the equivalence principle", I would guess.
 
damn...there goes my other question...
 
i'm confused...the equivelence principle doesn't always work?
 
The reason gravity contracts length is because of the equivalence principle. An actual acceleration itself does not cause length contraction, but it does imply motion relative to an instantaneous SR reference frame (terminology I've never heard used, but just made up, so there's probably something faulty in it). It may help you to read this: http://www.bartleby.com/173/23.html
 
GR is the four dimensional equivalent of Pythagoras' theorem. The sum of all vectors result in the same product. Does that help?
 
i thought that was sr. it shows time dilation by moving in other dimensions and such.
 
  • #10
yourdadonapogostick said:
i'm confused...the equivelence principle doesn't always work?

The equivalence principle always works. However, length contraction due to planetary or black-hole gravity cannot be derived from the equivalence princple alone. Length contraction comes from inspecting the metric resulting from the full solution of Einstein's field equations. The example of the Rindler metric shows that length contraction does not follow directly from the equivalence principle in isolation from the rest of the full theory.
 

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