How big can red supergiants get and can they be born at that size?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the characteristics and formation of red supergiants, specifically their maximum size and whether stars can be born directly at the supergiant level. Participants explore the implications of the Helix Nebula and the evolutionary processes of these massive stars.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the maximum size of red supergiants and whether they can be born at that size, referencing the Helix Nebula as a point of confusion.
  • Another participant cites Wikipedia, stating that supergiants typically range from ~10 to 50 solar masses and can exceed 1000 solar radii.
  • A different participant inquires whether the gas knots in the Helix Nebula could lead to the formation of new stars.
  • One reply suggests that the evolution of red supergiants is poorly understood and points to resources for further exploration.
  • Another participant discusses the evolutionary pathway of red giants, noting that they evolve from main sequence stars and that a star formed predominantly from helium might theoretically be born as a red giant, but questions its ability to sustain helium fusion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the formation and characteristics of red supergiants, indicating that multiple competing views remain and the discussion is unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the current understanding of red supergiant evolution, and assumptions regarding stellar formation processes are not fully addressed.

vincentm
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How big can these stars get, Also can a star be born at a Supergiant level?

I'm having a hard time understanding a particular object. The Helix Nebula is said to be the result of a supernova explosion, a closeup reveals tiny knots of gas, now these knots are said to be at least the size of our solar system, which means that the star dying to cause the Helix Nebula must've been huge, but how big was this star?
 
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According to Wikipedia, "A supergiant is a very large type of star which is ~10 to 50 solar masses on the Hertzsprung-Russell diagram. Supergiants can have radii in excess of 1000 solar radii."
 
My question is will those knots of gas create new stars?
 
Possibly this will answer the question.

http://phobos.physics.uiowa.edu/~srs/lec16/lec16.html

Otherwise google with "Red supergiant evolution".

There are a number of pdf's and one site suggests the evolution of red supergiants is still poorly understood.

Of recent supernovae observed, how many were red sg's before.
 
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Based on current knowledge [which is not precise or complete] red giants evolve from HR main sequence stars. The core temperature necessary to inflate the photosphere to red giant proportions cannot be achieved by hydrogen fusion. Perhaps a star formed predominantly from helium could theoretically be born a red giant, but I doubt it could ever get hot enough to initiate helium fusion without blowing itself apart.
 

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