Calculate Radius of Rolling Paper Cup

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the radius of the circles formed by a rolling paper cup, which has a conical shape. Participants explore the geometric relationships and mathematical principles involved in determining the radii based on the cup's dimensions, including its large and small radii and height.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the circumference of the circle made when the cup rolls is inversely proportional to the slope of the cup, expressed as Circumference ~ 1/slope or h/(R-r).
  • Another participant suggests that knowing the dimensions of the cup allows for the calculation of the circumferences of the top and bottom, which relate to the radii of the circles formed.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about how many turns the cup will make in one complete circle.
  • One participant proposes a method to find the height of the cone by extending the small end to a point, leading to a relationship involving the dimensions of the cup.
  • Another participant provides a formula for 'a' based on the dimensions of the cup and discusses the relationship between the height of the cup and the number of turns made.
  • A later post corrects a previous formula and provides new expressions for the radii based on the calculated 'a'.
  • One participant questions the practical application of rolling a paper cup to verify theoretical values.
  • Another participant shares a personal anecdote about learning the concept of pi through practical experimentation with circles, suggesting that while it may be a good exercise, it may not be necessary for the current discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the calculations and methods to determine the radii, with some proposing formulas and others questioning the need for practical experimentation. No consensus is reached on the best approach or the necessity of physical verification.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the geometry of the cup and the relationships between its dimensions remain unverified. The discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps and varying interpretations of the problem.

quasi426
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Given a conic geometry, like that of a paper cup. What is the radius of a circle made by the rolling made by the cup. It actually makes two circles so either radius as long as it is specified will do.

Given:

The cup's large radius = R
The cup's small radius = r
The length of the cup or height = h


So far I know that the circumference of the circle made when the cup rolls is inversely proportional to the slope of the cup:
Circumference ~ 1/slope or h/(R-r)
 
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When you are "given" the dimensions of the cup, you are given the radius of the top and bottom of the cup (or can calculate them from the information you have). From that you can calculate the circumference of the top and bottom. Since the cup rolls the same degrees on both of those the circles that the two parts must be will have circumferences the same multiple if the radius you are looking for.
 
I guess I just don't know how many turns the cup will make in one complete circle.
 
What you have to get is the height of the cone by extending the small end to a point. Let a=the addition to the height. then a/r=(a+h)/R. Solve for a, then the radii you want are a and a+h.
 
I get

a= (rh/R)/(1-r/R)

That seems right. As the height of the cup gets larger so does the turn ,which makes sense since the turn should be inversely proportional to the slope (R-r)/h


Thanks.
 
I made a mistake in my previous note. After you get a as described, the radii are given by
r1=sqrt(a2+r2)
r2=(a+h)r1/a
 
have you tried rolling a paper cup to confirm the theoretical values?
 
When I was in junior high, the math teacher introduced us to pi by having us cut out circles from cardboard and measure the diameters and the circumferences. We quickly learned that the ratio was approximately independent of the size of the circle (one smart aleck drew them on paper and knowing about pi, calculated the circumferences - the teacher was annoyed). In any case we quickly got the idea. I put your question about experimenting with paper cups in the same category. It might be a good exercise for a high student geometry student, but I don't think it is necessary here.
 

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