The Connection Between Planck Units and the Uncertainty Principle

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    Planck Units
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relationship between Planck units and the uncertainty principle, exploring the definitions, derivations, and implications of various Planck units, including Planck length, Planck time, and their connection to quantum mechanics and gravity. Participants delve into the historical context and mathematical relationships involved in these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that Planck Time is defined as the time it takes light to traverse Planck Length and questions how Planck Length was determined.
  • Another participant suggests that Planck units are calculation constants, with the Planck constant being a part of these constants.
  • A different participant claims that Planck length is derived from Planck Area, which is linked to Newton's gravitational constant, and mentions that these units were first proposed by Planck in 1899.
  • One participant elaborates on the significance of the Planck scale, stating it is where quantum mechanics and gravity intersect, leading to potential failures in their predictions.
  • Another participant inquires about deriving the uncertainty relation between mass and scale, asking if it can be derived from existing uncertainty relations like time-energy or position-momentum.
  • A later reply discusses the connection between energy and momentum in the context of uncertainty relations, suggesting a relationship between Planck's length and time through the equation l_P = c * t_P.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the derivation and implications of Planck units and their relation to the uncertainty principle. There is no consensus on the methods of derivation or the interpretations of these relationships, indicating ongoing debate and exploration.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference specific mathematical relationships and constants without fully resolving the underlying assumptions or dependencies involved in their derivations. The discussion also highlights the complexity of connecting quantum mechanics and gravitational concepts at the Planck scale.

Temporarily Blah
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I know that Planck Time is the amount of time it takes light to cross Planck Length, but how did they figure out Planck Length?

What are all the Planck units, how large are they, and how were they figured out?
 
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If i am not wrong Planck units are calculation constants, of which part of the constant is Planck constant itself. like h/2pi, is what they call h bar. with a small diagonial stroke at the top left of "h"

Like Light year, the value of the constant is pretty much suggested in the name itself
 
Planck length is the square root of Planck Area, which in turn is extracted from Newton gravitational constant. I think that the units were first suggested by Planck himself in 1899.
 
Temporarily Blah said:
I know that Planck Time is the amount of time it takes light to cross Planck Length, but how did they figure out Planck Length?

What are all the Planck units, how large are they, and how were they figured out?

The Planck scale is there where Quantum Mechanics and Gravity collide and
where their predictions are expected to fail one way or the other.

Quantum Mechanics:

Heisenbergh's uncertainty relation connects mass and scale.
To be confined into a smaller and smaller area the mass of a particle needs to
be higher and higher. The radius of the confinement area is the Compton
radius
of the particle.

Gravity:

When an object (say a star) is compressed more and more there will be a
radius when it will collapse under it's own gravity an become a black hole.
This radius is called the Schwarzschild radius. This radius becomes larger
when the mass increases.

Planks Scale:

Going back to particles. We have a radius which increases with mass
(Schwarzschild) and a radius which decreases with mass (Compton). The two
meet at the Planck scale. Particles with Plancks mass are so heavy and so
confined that they would collapse under their own gravity.


Planck mass _________ 2.17645e-8 kg
Planck length _______ 1.61624e-35 m
Planck time _________ 5.39121e-44 s
Planck temperature __ 1.41679e32 K



Regards, Hans

For the math, see for instance: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/planck/node2.html
 
Last edited:
Thank you all. ^_^
 
To Hans:

How does one get the uncertainty relation between mass and scale ?
Is it derivable from time-energy, position-momentum or number-phase UR´s ?
 
DaTario said:
To Hans:

How does one get the uncertainty relation between mass and scale ?
Is it derivable from time-energy, position-momentum or number-phase UR´s ?

There's no really "correct" way of doing this, but mostly a relation like E=pc
is used to connect [itex]\Delta E \Delta t[/itex] and [itex]\Delta p \Delta x[/itex]. This then also leads to the relation of
Plancks length and Planks time ([itex]l_P = c\ t_P[/itex] )

For an estimated radius of the proton of 10-15m this leads to an energy
of ~ 200 MeV which was once used by Yukawa as an estimate of the mass
for his hypothetical carrier of the strong nuclear force.

You see it sometimes used as an argument to estimate the mass of the proton
at at least 600 meV (= 3x the mass of a (quark) confined to 10-15m )


Regards, Hans
 

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