Hawking, new theory on information paradox right or qwrong?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on Stephen Hawking's recent amendment to his theory regarding the black hole information paradox, exploring the implications of information loss and retention in the context of black holes and alternate universes. Participants examine theoretical perspectives, implications for thermodynamics, and the nature of information itself.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of Hawking's claim that information loss is offset by information retained in alternate universes, arguing that unless these universes produce additional information, the overall loss remains unchanged.
  • Another participant raises the question of what type of information is lost and whether its loss is significant given that identical particles, atoms, and molecules replicate this information throughout the universe.
  • There is a suggestion that the eventual maximum entropy will lead to the loss of all information, questioning the relevance of this loss in the grand scheme of the universe's fate.
  • One participant asserts that the universe will not cease to exist but will transform into different forms, proposing a recycling concept of the universe.
  • Another participant emphasizes the speculative nature of the discussion, noting that without a unified field theory, definitive conclusions are elusive.
  • A later reply challenges the interpretation of Hawking's paper, asserting that information remains in our universe and suggesting that the idea of using black holes for travel to other universes contradicts this preservation of information.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of Hawking's theory and its implications, indicating that multiple competing views remain. There is no consensus on the significance of information loss or the nature of the universe's fate.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the information paradox and the implications for thermodynamics, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the nature of information and the specifics of Hawking's claims.

berty
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Hawking, new theory on information paradox right or wrong?

Does anyone have any views on Stephen Hawking amendment to his 30 year old theory of black holes and the *information paradox that was recently challenged?

Once past the event horizon information is lost forever and only the energy emitted during the tearing apart of matter at the event horizon escapes in the form of high energy particles such as X rays, gamma rays etc. When the black hole evaporates the information inside is lost to the Universe. According to his critics, this violates the first law of thermodynamics and therefore cannot be true.

He now apparently states that his theory is still true in our Universe; however, the information lost is offset by information being retained in a sufficiently large number of the infinite alternate Universes where no black holes exist.
This seems to me to be a bit of a rushed and unconvincing rebuff for one reason in particular.
Unless some of the alternative Universes produce extra information, it doesn’t matter how many there are as there will still be a net loss of information overall.
Another point is; what kind of information is lost?
If it is simply the description of how common particles, atoms and molecules are constructed and behave, then does it matter if this information is lost?
After all the information is duplicated in every other identical particle, atom and molecule throughout the Universe.
Or is because eventually entropy, time and the proliferation of black holes will cause the loss of every shred of information?
Does this really matter as when entropy reaches its maximum, the Universe will cease to exist along with all information of whatever origin?
 
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The Universe will never cease to exist, It will simply be converted from one form to another. One huge recycling center awaits us all.
 
Until there is a unified field theory, I think all we can do at most is speculate.
 
berty said:
He now apparently states that his theory is still true in our Universe; however, the information lost is offset by information being retained in a sufficiently large number of the infinite alternate Universes where no black holes exist.
Where did you get that from? That isn't the view I got from reading this paper, in which Hawking states:
The information remains firmly in our universe. I'm sorry to disappoint science fiction fans, but if information is preserved, there is no possibility of using black holes to travel to other universes.
(I got this quote from one of my blog postings a few months back. Arxiv seems to be down right now, so I can't check the paper to be sure, but I think the quote was on page 5.)
 
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