Understanding Prevarieties and Affine Varieties in Projective Space

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of prevarieties and affine varieties within projective space, specifically addressing the relationship between open and closed sets in different topologies. Participants explore the definitions and implications of these terms in the context of algebraic geometry.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Daniel expresses confusion regarding how affine varieties, which are closed in the Zariski topology, can be isomorphic to open subsets in projective space.
  • Some participants clarify that openness and closedness are relative properties, suggesting that a continuous map can reflect closed sets but does not necessarily send closed sets to closed sets.
  • Examples are provided, such as the arctan function and the projection of a hyperbola, to illustrate how closed sets can map to open sets under certain conditions.
  • One participant notes the need to specify the topology being used when discussing isomorphisms, particularly distinguishing between Euclidean and Zariski topologies.
  • Another participant questions the definition of prevarieties in projective space, suggesting that the lack of a separation axiom typically associated with prevarieties may not apply in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement on the nature of continuous maps and their properties, while there is disagreement regarding the definition and implications of prevarieties in projective space. The discussion remains unresolved on the latter point.

Contextual Notes

There is a potential ambiguity regarding the definitions of prevarieties and varieties, particularly in relation to separation axioms and their application in projective space. Some assumptions about the topologies involved may also be implicit in the discussion.

dg0666
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The book I am reading, Linear Algebraic Groups by Humphreys defines a prevariety X in projective space P^n to be a noetherian topological space endowed with a sheaf of functions such that X is the union of finitely many open subsets, each isomorphic to an affine variety.

This confuses me because I do not understand how affine varieties, which are closed sets in the Zariski topology, can be isomorphic to open sets in P^n.

Please help!

Daniel
 
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Ooh, is it the closed vs open bit that's confusing you?

Don't forget that openness and closedness are properties of a subspace relative to the whole, and not properties of the subspace itself.

For example, (0, 1) is a closed subset of (0, 1), despite the fact it's an open subset of [0, 1].
 
In fact I understand that distinction. What is confusing me is that the affine varieties are closed in one topology and they are mapped isomorphically onto open subsets in P^n. It is just this bijection between open and closed subsets which is confusing me.

Should I be confused by this or is this just something counter-intuitive? I always thought that a continuous map sends closed sets to closed sets. Do you have to hand a simple elementary example to clarify how this situation is possible.

Dan
 
A continuous map reflects closed sets -- that is if f(T) is closed, then T is closed.

The other way is not guaranteed. For example, consider the map RR:x→arctan x. This is an isomorphism of a closed set onto an open set.

Another popular example is to take the curve in R² given by xy = 1, and project it onto the x-axis, giving an isomorphism of a closed subset of R² onto an open subset of R.

But, continuous maps do preserve compact sets. One of the oddities of Zariski topologies is that compact sets are not necessarily closed.

For example, C - {0} is an open, compact subset of C with the Zariski topology.


Incidentally, the embedding (0, 1)→[0, 1] is representative of what's going on here. If we identify the endpoints of [0, 1], then it is exactly analogous to embedding the real line into the projective real line.
 
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Great. I think that has answered my question very well. My confusion arosed because of a misunderstanding between isomorphisms and continuous maps but thanks very much for your help.

Dan
 
It strikes me that I should be more explicit about which topology I was using, and in which category I was claiming isomorphism in my examples. (Though I presume you figured out my meaning, I still feel the need to elaborate)

x→arctan x was using the Euclidean topology, since it's clearly not a continuous map under the Zariski topology. It is an isomorphism onto its image, that is an isomorphism of R and (-π/2, π/2), as a map of topological spaces. (i.e. a homeomorphism)

The second example, the projection of the hyperbola onto the punctured x-axis is continuous in both the Zariski and the Euclidean topologies. The domain is closed in both topologies, and the image is open in both topologies. This one is actually a regular map of quasiaffine varieties, and thus an isomorphism in that category, as well as being a homeomorphism of topological spaces.
 
I am puzzled about your saying that the prevariety is "in projective space" as then you give a completely abstract definition.the distinction between a "pre"variety and a variety, is usually the lack of a separation axiom, which is always satisfied for such things that occur in projective space. are you sure you read him correctly?
 
I am puzzled about your saying that the prevariety is "in projective space" as then you give a completely abstract definition.


the distinction between a "pre"variety and a variety, is usually the lack of a separation axiom, which is always satisfied for such things that occur in projective space. are you sure you read him correctly?
 

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