Gene Mixing and Cloning: The Role of Meiotic Cells in Reproduction

[kleinwolf]

Do you think if the meiotic cell code is taken instead of mitotic or somatic cells: for example two eggs code...and then remixed...then the sexual function is taken into account into that cloning process...but then how to recompose the genes...this could explain why a mix_clone of a man could give a woman or other type of people ??

 

[detta]

Do you think if the meiotic cell code is taken instead of mitotic or somatic cells: for example two eggs code...and then remixed...then the sexual function is taken into account into that cloning process...but then how to recompose the genes...this could explain why a mix_clone of a man could give a woman or other type of people ??

What is a meiotic cell code??

 

[selfAdjoint]

Do you think if the meiotic cell code is taken instead of mitotic or somatic cells: for example two eggs code...and then remixed...then the sexual function is taken into account into that cloning process...but then how to recompose the genes...this could explain why a mix_clone of a man could give a woman or other type of people ??

Isaac Asimov wrote a song, which used to be sung at cons, that started

"Clone, clone of my own
With its X-chromosome changed into Y..."
(sung to the tune of the chorus from Home on the Range).

That describes how you would get a female out of a male clone. Perhaps by duplicating the male's existing Y-chromosome.

 

[Monique]

That describes how you would get a female out of a male clone. Perhaps by duplicating the male's existing Y-chromosome.

Males are XY, females XX.

Kleinwolf: cloning is cloning because you take an adult somatic cell, otherwise it would be in vitro fertilization (when taking a sperm and oocyte). I'm not sure whether the sexual function would be included when transferring the nucleii of gametes, if you use two oocytes the sperm component will be missing and when just taking the nucleii you are missing the crucial event of sperm entry into the oocyte.

 

[kleinwolf]

Kleinwolf: cloning is cloning because you take an adult somatic cell, otherwise it would be in vitro fertilization (when taking a sperm and oocyte)

No, if you take to RNA codes of the same person : for example two oocytes of the same woman, and find a way to recombine them...then obvisouly there is no male needed in the process, so it's nearer to cloning.
You see : when you use somatic cell, the meiosis is missing. But you don't need sperm, just two eggs, or two spermatozoids...
Do you understand ?

What I mean is that when you take two oocytes, you have two RNA codes (half of the whole DNA nuclear code). So you can simulate the gene mixing, but without spermatozoid or anything. The sperm entry is replaced by the, up to know, at my knowledge, not achieved, in vitro RNA recombination of RNA codes from the same body...

We could call this "in vitro auto-fertilization" or "in vitro auto-recombination"...indeed two eggs have two different gene sets, because there is the crossing over process. (one RNA code can get the recessive genes present in the woman...the other half is lost during the meisosis , for example).

In fact I meant "sexual function" in the sense : changing/mixing the genes, or the DNA codes...indeed because the genes are given as pairs, then crossing over can change the phenotype...

 

[Monique]

1. RNA is the transcription product of DNA, it is the code that is translated into protein. Humans are diploid (two copies of each chromosomes) half the DNA would be called haploid.

2. When you mix the genetic code of two oocytes from the same individual, you indeed have a mix that is easier to clone. You clone a somatic cell by passing it through an oocyte several times, since there are some unknown components in there that are required for resetting the cell.

3. You are still missing the male component, think about the correct imprinting of genes and the events that happen after the entry of the sperm. It is not so obvious that no sperm is needed, sperms and oocytes are biochemically different and have each their contribution. When you combine the DNA of two oocytes, the cell won't automatically start to grow into an embryo.

 

[kleinwolf]

When you combine the DNA of two oocytes, the cell won't automatically start to grow into an embryo.

ok, so what is the fact that if u put "somatic dna" ((which is unisexual for remembrance) without mixing the two oocytes codes (let say we could do this in the lab)...the growth is starting (at least what biologists say)...because cloning is throwing, anyway, the code of the oocyte, because you put a complete one inside...so i dont' see the fact why the artificial mixing (you seem quite in possession of the mean to explain me this)...for example a spermatozoid is giving half the code to complete the oocyte code..or half of the code was in fact coming from another egg...what is the ID..since if you put a complete code..the egg know there is a male and female component ?? if you give half the code from a egg into another egg from which you threw away the original code and replaced it with a sperm code instead...for example..so what is the process for starting the growth in those conditions for example ?

 

[Monique]

Could you say that again, but now so that I can understand what you're saying?

 

[kleinwolf]

3. You are still missing the male component, think about the correct imprinting of genes and the events that happen after the entry of the sperm. It is not so obvious that no sperm is needed, sperms and oocytes are biochemically different and have each their contribution. When you combine the DNA of two oocytes, the cell won't automatically start to grow into an embryo.

So if sperm is needed, cloning is impossible...QED ? (why fooling around with cloning anyhow)...
I thought there were some modes : simplified as :

1) spermatozoid(1/2DNA)+oocyte(1/2DNA) (in bed or in vitro ?)

2) oocyte(1/2DNA)-->oocyte(0DNA)+somatic(1DNA) (cloning)

3) oocyte(1/2DNA)--->oocyte(0DNA)+2*gametes(1/2DNA) (??)

4)..?? other ideas (chromosomial mixing...aso ??)

gametes is in the set {speramtozoid,oocyte}

But these are esoterical stuff that is just for "media whirling" ?