Calculating the froce between two magnets

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the force between two magnets, focusing on the interpretation of the formula provided in a Wikipedia article. Participants explore the implications of magnetic properties, including the role of permeability and the nature of magnetic poles.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the meaning of "mu" in the magnetic force formula, suggesting it represents the permeability of the medium, likely air.
  • Another participant points out that magnetic monopoles have not been observed, indicating that calculations for real magnets should consider them as dipoles, which complicates the force relationship.
  • A participant questions the relevance of mass in the context of magnetic force, contrasting it with gravitational force.
  • Another participant explains that the electric force between charges does not depend on mass, suggesting that magnetic force is a relativistic correction that depends on charge and velocity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of magnetic forces, particularly regarding the role of mass and the treatment of magnetic poles. There is no consensus on the implications of these factors for calculating magnetic force.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of modeling magnetic interactions, particularly the transition from monopole to dipole considerations, and the assumptions involved in applying the Wikipedia formula.

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chui said:
I have a formula, taken from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet#Calculating_the_Magnetic_Force"
But I didnt get the meaning of "mu" in this formula..
can anyone explain?
[tex]\mu[/tex] is the permeability of the medium between the magnets, in your case this is probably air, the value of [itex]\mu_{air} \approx \mu_0 = 1.26 x 10^{-4} \frac {Henry} {meter} [/tex].[/itex]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Another thing that's worth pointing out is that magnetic poles (aka monopoles) have never been observed to exist, though theoretically they may have existed at very early times in the formation of the universe.

So if you want to calculate the force between a pair of real magnets like the kind you'll be likely to find on your refrigeratior, you'll need to work out the force between dipoles, not magnetic poles (aka monoples). This will lead to a much more complex formula, and a non-inverse square relationship for the force.

Modeling a magnetic dipole as a pair of magnetic poles some distance will be very useful in calculating the force between real magnets, but as far as real-life applicaitons go, the wikipedia formula has only done half the job.
 
no mass?

Well, Does this force not effected by the magnet Mass?! (unlike gravity etc.)
why is that?
 
The electric force between two charges depends on the charge, not the mass. The magnetic force is basically a relativistic correction to the electric force, so it depends on charge and velocity (i.e. current).
 

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