What Does the Phrase 'Stop Rape' Really Mean?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of police actions, particularly in the context of a video showing Brazilian police shooting an unarmed man. Participants explore themes of trust in law enforcement, the nature of justice, and the broader societal implications of police conduct. The conversation touches on issues of human rights, the role of government versus private entities, and the validity of video evidence in assessing police behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express distrust in police and government, suggesting that humanity is inherently flawed.
  • Others argue that a smaller government could lead to better outcomes, positing that consumer interests should prevail in a capitalist society.
  • Concerns are raised about the authenticity of the video evidence, with some questioning its validity and relevance to the discussion.
  • There is a suggestion that even if the video is not real, similar incidents occur frequently, indicating a systemic issue within law enforcement.
  • Some participants assert that police actions should be judged based on the context of the situation, including the actions of the individual involved prior to the incident.
  • Others argue that regardless of circumstances, due process and trials are essential, emphasizing the importance of a legal framework over individual judgment by police.
  • There is a call for independent investigations into police conduct, with some advocating for third-party oversight to ensure accountability.
  • Participants discuss the balance between human rights and justice, with differing views on when police actions may be justified.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views remain regarding the nature of police actions, the validity of video evidence, and the broader implications for justice and human rights.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the issues discussed, including the potential for flawed legal systems and the challenges of ensuring justice while respecting human rights. The conversation reflects a range of assumptions and perspectives that are not fully resolved.

cronxeh
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Brazilian cops shoot unarmed, subdued man
http://www.m90.org/view_image.php?image_id=8282
 
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Townsend said:
That is why I will never trust the police or part the government for that matter...I have no faith in humanity.
Yeah, leave everything in the hands of private corporations instead.
After all, that pernicious humanity can't vote who's going to be in charge of the private company. The fewer who decide, the better.
 
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arildno said:
The fewer who decides, the better.

The fewer decisions the better! In other words a smaller weaker government is better. Also the more the merrier so long as people cannot agree on what is right nothing will get done which is a good thing. :smile:

[edit]
Not to mention that in pure a capitalist society the consumer is king...NOT the corporations.[/edit]
 
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How do we know this is even real?

Hell a few seconds ago i saw a video off the same website that was a fake-video of a "magic" trick.
 
Pengwuino said:
How do we know this is even real?

Hell a few seconds ago i saw a video off the same website that was a fake-video of a "magic" trick.

Even if it is not real what supposedly happened in that video happens and will continue to happen.
 
Townsend said:
Even if it is not real what supposedly happened in that video happens and will continue to happen.

Well then that makes for a rather pointless thread now doesn't it.
 
Pengwuino said:
Well then that makes for a rather pointless thread now doesn't it.

I thought the point was that police do things that go against all possible notions of justice. The point was not that it happened in this particular case, as this case was merely on example of the many different cases of this that happen.
 
Townsend said:
as this case was merely on example of the many different cases of this that happen.

of what.. possibly fake videos?

We all know this kinda stuff happens. This is like when people try to raise awareness for AIDS. Everyone knows it, stop wasting your time :D

Go back to your snow :-p
 
  • #10
Pengwuino said:
of what.. possibly fake videos?
:rolleyes:

We all know this kinda stuff happens. This is like when people try to raise awareness for AIDS. Everyone knows it, stop wasting your time :D

I want to waste my time...that is why I'm in GD right now. :-p
 
  • #11
Be a man, go into PWF, there's a tremendous waste of time and braincells. It's the only place where you don't have to think rationally to contribute.
 
  • #12
Pengwuino said:
Be a man, go into PWF,

I have been most of the day...

there's a tremendous waste of time and braincells. It's the only place where you don't have to think rationally to contribute.

I know...
 
  • #13
Pengwuino said:
of what.. possibly fake videos?

We all know this kinda stuff happens. This is like when people try to raise awareness for AIDS. Everyone knows it, stop wasting your time :D

Go back to your snow :-p
w00t w00t w00t
 
  • #14
Well since you hijacked my thread, I'm going to use counter-spam on you all

This is a picture of a major trauma, click on your own discretion! :

edit: too graphic
 
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  • #15
That's one hell of a stiffy he's got there.
 
  • #16
I don't see how you can make any judgement on based on that video.
It's a couple of seconds long and you don't know what went on beforehand.
He could have killed 10 people or something.
 
  • #17
Well even if he killed 10 people, you shouldn't just shoot him right there if you can detain him.
 
  • #18
Well I admit the public shouldn't have to see that, but if there is absolutely no doubt he killed 10 actually innocent people then they should take him back to the station and shoot him there. I don't see why you'd waste money on keeping him detained and giving him a trial when it is 100% fact that he did it. But obviously those are a lot of ifs. Usually it isn't a 100% known so detaining them and giving them a trial is the only way to go.
 
  • #19
Everyone gets a trial...
 
  • #20
i don't know if this will work for everybody else or not, it doesn't for me but i remember it's a news article about a riot cop taking a point-blank shot at a protestor who was cowering on the ground in no position to retaliate in any way. (knowing rotten.com it could be extremely graphic but in this case it isn't as the pic was published in a newspaper)
http://vatican.rotten.com/protester/"
Police will put an end to this unsightly menace
 
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  • #21
Link doesn't seem to be working.
 
  • #22
big man said:
I don't see how you can make any judgement on based on that video.
It's a couple of seconds long and you don't know what went on beforehand.
He could have killed 10 people or something.

even if that guy did kill 10 people, what is the point of even having law if cops have the moral right to use their own judgement in assigning punishment? if killing 10 people disserves death then make a law about it and send him to trial.

iv heard about a few cases like this recently where police had their own views of justice and their roles as protectors of law. a reporter on human rights abuse in Columbia was beat to death in custody, officers claiming it was a drug over dose while the body was actually covered in bruises and a broken skull. the video of police beating a man in NO a few weeks ago. this stuff happens all the time and the big problem about it is the officers doing this are at the mercy of an organization that doesn't want to officially concede they actually did anything wrong.


i would like to see a branch of the UN or some other third party to investigate human rights abuse of this nature. it would make me fell better to know the bad cops in my area are being investigated by someone other then their peers
 
  • #23
Yeah with the examples you guys are giving it is terrible. I know you need to look at the broader picture in these situations, and you are right that it'd be good to have a third party investigating such incidents. But I was saying that you can't really judge from that video. To me if that guy had killed 10 people and I was a witness to it and then I saw the police shoot him I really wouldn't give a crap. However, a clip like the protestor one - which I can't see - I would think it's bad because I know the story behind it.

Really the point I was trying to make in a muddled up way, is that the concept of human rights is taken too far sometimes. Sometimes proven murderers and rapists are set free on the notion that they have rights too. So in my imaginary situation I would see their action as justified, but if it was one of your examples then I'd clearly see it as an abuse of power.
 
  • #24
big man said:
Yeah with the examples you guys are giving it is terrible. I know you need to look at the broader picture in these situations, and you are right that it'd be good to have a third party investigating such incidents. But I was saying that you can't really judge from that video. To me if that guy had killed 10 people and I was a witness to it and then I saw the police shoot him I really wouldn't give a crap. However, a clip like the protestor one - which I can't see - I would think it's bad because I know the story behind it.
Really the point I was trying to make in a muddled up way, is that the concept of human rights is taken too far sometimes. Sometimes proven murderers and rapists are set free on the notion that they have rights too. So in my imaginary situation I would see their action as justified, but if it was one of your examples then I'd clearly see it as an abuse of power.

its a flawed system when people guilty of crimes can exploit loopholes in a legal system, but that's another issue. its best to just take the trouble to mend the tattered sails of society then cut patches from it to apply where you need them most

this brings to mind a group called the black panthers in the usa that was fighting for racial equality (in some cases superiority, it wasn't a perfect group) and the organization actually made blacks look bad because among other things, they sold drugs to fund their operations. point being that even if that guy was a dirt bag and him getting shot wasnt so bad, because of who shot him and how, it makes the guy seem like a mayrter from police brutality.
 
  • #25
This guy didnt kill 10 people.

Police get in a gunfight with robbers, they´ve killed the driver of the getaway car, and then execute the other robber.

Here is a video of LAPD brutality:
http://totallyshocking.com/media206.htm

Warning: the site contains F words, etc etc who cares.
 
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  • #26
That video clip appeared on a documentry in the uk called 'Ross Kemp on Gangs', Ross is an actor and during the show traveled the world talking to the most violet gangs.

Anyway the guy in the clip was a suspected drug deal! in San Palo. Normally the cops just throw these people in a very over crowded jail but that day they shot the guy since they didn`t want the paper work!

The police in SP are notorious, they are paid by the gangs to carry out hits on members of other gangs, kidnap high ranking members of gangs and hold them to ransom. During the tv show Ross interviewed the head of the anti-drug section of the police and asked him about what the policemen get up to, his responce was "Some of the police are corrupt" he seemed to know about what happens but just did not care!
 
  • #27
Pengwuino said:
of what.. possibly fake videos?

We all know this kinda stuff happens. This is like when people try to raise awareness for AIDS. Everyone knows it, stop wasting your time :D

Go back to your snow :-p

This reminds me of last semester when a group on campus held a march against rape and handed out all these buttons and places posters everywhere that simply said "Stop Rape." On the one hand, I do see the point of this. In particular, raising awareness that rape is indeed a problem on college campuses might help to curb the rates. On the other hand, there is this absurdist element to it: I found myself thinking "What exactly are these people protesting? It's not exactly like there's some huge 'pro-rape' contingent opposing them."
 
  • #28
Ha! Someone else who sees it as stupid.

I don't even see how it would curb rates. Do rapists think "hmm.. well there was that rally last week that said rape was wrong... i think i won't rape this girl then"
 
  • #29
Pengwuino said:
Ha! Someone else who sees it as stupid.

I don't even see how it would curb rates. Do rapists think "hmm.. well there was that rally last week that said rape was wrong... i think i won't rape this girl then"

It might even increase rates...:frown:
 
  • #30
Pengwuino said:
Ha! Someone else who sees it as stupid.

I don't even see how it would curb rates. Do rapists think "hmm.. well there was that rally last week that said rape was wrong... i think i won't rape this girl then"

i think the term "stop rape" means something more like "stop being passive when you know someone is being raped/molested while unable to prevent it themselves, for instance, an inebriated girl being groped by a stranger. don't look the other way because you don't want to watch, do something about it instead" rather then "you should stop raping people".

its a simple message and i think its all the more powerful for people Still misunderstanding it or ignoring it.
 

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