How does the uncertainty principle affect the behavior of photons?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of the uncertainty principle on the behavior of photons, particularly in relation to concepts of time, aging, and the nature of light in quantum mechanics. Participants explore theoretical aspects of photons, their interaction with time, and the implications for quantum phenomena such as the double-slit experiment.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that light or radiation from distant galaxies may be perceived as having traveled for billions of years, but question whether relativistic time dilation affects the aging of light itself.
  • Others argue that photons, being massless, do not age and suggest that time dilation does not apply to them.
  • There is a suggestion that photons could be considered "timeless," raising questions about how they interact with concepts of time and entropy in quantum mechanics.
  • One participant discusses the implications of the uncertainty principle, suggesting that a photon cannot be treated as a discrete particle but rather as a unit of behavior along its entire path.
  • Another viewpoint emphasizes that the entire path of a photon may "know" the conditions at both ends, referencing Feynman's sum over paths as a way to conceptualize this behavior.
  • Concerns are raised about the interpretation of photons and their behavior during travel, including the idea that they may exist in a state of potential paths until measured, which complicates understanding their nature.
  • Some participants express a belief that information could be transmitted without the constraints of time or energy, suggesting the need for a better physical explanation beyond mathematical formalism.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not reach a consensus, as multiple competing views remain regarding the nature of photons, their relationship with time, and the implications of the uncertainty principle. The discussion reflects a variety of interpretations and uncertainties surrounding these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved assumptions about the nature of time as it relates to massless particles, the dependence on interpretations of quantum mechanics, and the challenges in measuring properties of photons during their travel.

billy_boy_999
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light or radiation from a faroff galaxy seems to us to have been traveling for, let's say, 5 billion years - but does relativistic time dilation affect it? are the light waves themselves much younger? maybe only a few thousand years?
 
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Strange...I never thought of light having a lifespan. I assumed it never aged.
 
well the only reason it wouldn't age is because it has no mass...which is why i think time dilation must NOT affect it in any way...

i could rephrase it - does time dilation only affect mass? is light absolutely mass-less?
 
Photons in theory are ageless -
 
yogi is right!
 
yogi said:
Photons in theory are ageless -
I think maybe the word I would use is "timeless." I think the key to quantum wierdness may be a result of this. Ie, how does light "know" which slit to go through in the two slit experiment if the slit is closed after the light passes throuh...?
 
russ_watters said:
I think maybe the word I would use is "timeless." I think the key to quantum wierdness may be a result of this. Ie, how does light "know" which slit to go through in the two slit experiment if the slit is closed after the light passes throuh...?
Good point.Photon is somehow "aware" of the arrow of time and fundamental entropy law inspite of nonexisting time .This only shows that our spacetime concepts and our perception of it,are shaky and still need better clarification.
Photon obviously has (*somewhere*) book -keeping info resource of boundary conditions experimental set of our universe.QM currently can't explain this,but reflection of that phenomenon is built into its' equations.
Strong reason why Einstein considered QM to be incomplete theory.
 
The photon is not a little particle, rather uncertainty says it can't be separated out of its beam. So the entire path is the unit of behavior? So path "knows" conditions at both ends?

(added) If you look at simulations of Feynmann's sum over paths in simple cases, it sure looks like this is happening. The anthropocentric "knows" is replaced by "consider all possible paths and add them together".
 
Last edited:
selfAdjoint said:
The photon is not a little particle, rather uncertainty says it can't be separated out of its beam. So the entire path is the unit of behavior? So path "knows" conditions at both ends?
.

Not a "little" particle.That's for sure.Some interpretations of photon physics ,and that is what is bothering me (not just me) ,suggest that as long as it is in state of "travel" from the moment it is emmited to the moment it is absorbed ,it should be considered in a real physical sense located in its beam.But we can't know this without measurment!Even theoretical possibility of future tehnology to measure gravity field of propagating photon is still intaraction with its' path.And when photon interacts QM eqs formalism seems to indicate it can be split in many possible paths (pottential photons?). Than one path due to probability "wins" and original photon is reveiwed (becomes real) in one unit and proceeds travel (or it is absorbed so we lose information on it).Quite a headache to comprehand.
Feyman made some clowning on it by saying "photon snifs all possible paths and chosses right path".But it doesn't help me much in understanding.
I'm quite convinced that information can be transmited without "time" factor or perhaps even without energy expenditures,but the question remains how.
Not with concept of uniformly traveling photon ,but perhaps with instant teleportation of photons' states.How this happens must be better physicaly explained than just through the math formalism of boundary conditions.
 

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