Integrals with no limits. (Backwards differientation)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of integrals without limits, often referred to as indefinite integrals, and their relationship to differentiation. Participants explore the meaning, applications, and implications of these integrals in various contexts, including physics and mathematics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses understanding of indefinite integrals as "backwards differentiation" but questions their practical use, particularly in astrophysics.
  • Another participant explains the process of antidifferentiation, providing an example involving a particle's velocity and position function, emphasizing the general solution form that includes a constant of integration.
  • There is a discussion about the distinction between definite and indefinite integrals, noting that the former yields a numerical value while the latter represents a family of functions.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the relationship between definite integrals and antiderivatives, questioning if the area under a curve can be computed using antiderivatives.
  • One participant affirms the importance of the connection between antidifferentiation and integration, referencing the fundamental theorem of calculus.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definitions and relationships between indefinite and definite integrals, but there remains some uncertainty regarding the practical applications and implications of indefinite integrals, particularly in specific contexts like astrophysics.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express confusion about the practical utility of indefinite integrals, indicating a need for further exploration of their applications in various fields. Additionally, the discussion touches on the importance of initial conditions in determining the constant of integration.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and educators in mathematics and physics, particularly those interested in the foundational concepts of calculus and their applications in real-world scenarios.

QuantumTheory
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Alright, I understand clearly what a integral with no limits is, what it does, etc.

It is simply backwards differentation (differentation deals with the instanteous slope of a parabola)

And has no limit (no a to b), thus there must be a constant of integration since two (or more) of the same functions can look the same.

It looks like:
[tex]\int[/tex]


I understand that these integrals are backwards differentation, thus backwards slopes?

This doesn't make any sense, what exactly is their use then?

I see a lot of integrals without limits (They do not deal with area like the other type of integrals) being written down about the paradoxes of space (like on the discovery channel/science channel)

This makes me even more interested on their use of them! Because I am hopefully going to be a professor in astrophysics! So far I'm 16, and I have a great start! I even tutor kids after school in math, its great.

I understand the use of integrals with limits , from a to b like used in area, it makes sense! However I don't see the use of integrals without limits (thus with the C constant!)

Help?

:confused:
 
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Consider this problem: given a function f(x), we wish to find a function F(x) such that F'(x) = f(x). The process is called antidifferentiation and F(x) is called an antiderivative of f(x). This "general" problem arises in various applications.

Consider this problem:

I have a particle moving along an x-axis such that its velocity at time t is v(t) = 2t. What is its position function, x(t)? We know from physics that x'(t) = v(t). So we want to find a function x(t) such that x'(t) = 2t. This is an antidifferentiation problem.

How do we solve it? We use educated guesswork. If you're familiar with differentiation then you'll quickly realize that if x(t) = t2, x'(t) = 2t.

So, we're finished right?

Not really. Note that x(t) = t2 + 2, x(t) = t2 - 1, and even x(t) = t2 +1000 qualifies as a solution (since in all of those cases, x'(t) = v(t) ).

Since we have no additional information about x(t), we write the general solution x(t) = t2 + C.

Now that took a lot of time! The notation to describe what we did is

[tex]x(t) = \int v(t)\;dt = \int 2t\;dt = t^2 + C[/tex]

The notation [itex]\int 2t\;dt[/itex] is used to denote all functions x(t) such that x'(t) = 2t.

Now, if we have additional information about x(t) we can find the value of C. For example, if we have the information that the particle is at x = 5 when t = 0, then we can quickly conclude that x(t) = t2 + 5.

Other uses of indefinite integral (the one with upper and lower limit is called definite integral):

- Suppose we know r(t), the rate of change of a city population at time t. Find the function p(t) that describe the population of the city at time t! (note that p'(t) = r(t) )
- Suppose we know a(t), the acceleration of a particle moving along x-axis at time t. Find its position function x(t)! (note that x'(t) = v(t) and v'(t) = a(t))

As a comparison: a definite integral (the one you use to find area) yields a number (in that case the area), while an indefinite integral yields a family of functions (as shown earliear, this family has the form of F(x) + C).

Oh, and btw, the definite and indefinite itegrals are nicely connected to each other. Let f(x) be continuous on [a, b]. Then it can be proved that:

[tex]\int_a^b f(x)\;dx = \left[\int f(x)\;dx\right]_a^b[/tex]

I hope that clears things up :)...
 
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So basically, [tex]\int_a^b f(x)\;dx = \left[\int f(x)\;dx\right]_a^b[/tex]

Is saying that F(x) dx = [tex]\int_a^b f(x)\;dx[/tex]?

The first integral with limits, is the area under a curve of [tex]f(x)[/tex] of each piece of the area of the curve ([tex]dx[/tex]).

But, you can solve the area under the curve with the antiderivative of f(x) dx?

Thanks.

Is this right?
 
Yep. This connection between antidifferentiation and integration is so important, it's called the fundamental theorem of calculus.

[tex] \int_a^b f'(t) \, dt = f(b) - f(a)[/tex]

and if f is continuous,

[tex] \frac{d}{dx} \int_a^x f(t) \, dt = f(x)[/tex]
 
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