How to apply e=mc^2 to a photon?

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    Apply E=mc^2 Photon
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the equation E=mc² to photons, exploring concepts of relativistic mass, energy, and the implications of the Lorentz factor in relation to the speed of light. Participants engage in various aspects of theoretical physics, including relativistic effects, the nature of photons, and the relationship between energy and momentum.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that E=mc² can be applied to photons if "m" is interpreted as relativistic mass, despite photons having zero rest mass.
  • Others question the relativity of a photon's energy and how it relates to different observers' velocities.
  • There is discussion about the Lorentz factor and its applicability to a photon's energy, with some participants expressing confusion about its relevance.
  • Some participants argue that the concept of relativistic mass adds confusion and advocate for focusing on invariant mass instead.
  • Questions are raised about the nature of magnetism and its relation to photon exchange, with references to quantum electrodynamics (QED).
  • Participants express uncertainty about the dimensionality of photons and their behavior in different media, particularly regarding time perception at the speed of light.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the application of E=mc² to photons, with multiple competing views on the interpretation of relativistic mass and the implications for energy and momentum. Participants express differing opinions on the usefulness of the concept of relativistic mass and its role in special relativity versus general relativity.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the confusion surrounding relativistic mass and its implications for teaching and understanding physics concepts. There are also unresolved questions regarding the application of the Lorentz factor and the nature of photons in various contexts.

  • #31
I'll try and paraphrase what Zz posted in order to make it easier to understand. Solids are made up of a network of ions (charged particles, in this case atoms) and electrons. Imagine that the atoms are balls, evenly spaced forming a cubic lattice, with springs connecting one atom to the next something like http://www.teachmetuition.co.uk/Chemistry/Chemicalstructureandbonding/cubeionstotal.gif" . These lattices have vibrational energy levels, similar to the energy levels in an atom. Now, when a photon enters a solid, it can interact with these energy levels; if the photon has an energy equal to one of the lattice vibrational energy levels, then the photon is absorbed. However, if the photon has an energy greater than any of the lattice vibrational energy levels the lattice will absorb the photon, but since there is too much energy for the lattice to absorb, it releases the energy in the form of another photon. However, there is a time delay between the lattice absorbing the first photon and emitting the second while the lattice tries to absorb the photon energy. A photon may 'hop' between springs while traveling through a solid, so although photons always travel at c in a solid they 'appear' to slow down while they are absorbed and re-emitted by the energy levels.

Does that make sense?

Caveat lector - much of this (in fact the majority of it) is not scientifically accurate, but does convey the 'gist' of the mechanisms.
 
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  • #32
Im getting a hang of wat ur saying.But can u please answer my previous question based on the time taken by a photon to traverse the same distance in a refracting medium and also in vacuum.Thank you
 
  • #33
anantchowdhary said:
Hey,is it that the photon's time to cover that distance thru a refracting medium gets prolonged in comparison to its normal time taken to pass thru a distance?Im sry I am in a mess
Yes, in general it will take light longer to travel through a refracting medium than through free space. Although please note that photons travel at c through the refracting medium. And there's no need to apologise, we're all here to learn.
 
  • #34
Hey so if it takes a longer time then isn't Fermat's Principle of least time being violated
Also so a photon has to be two dimensional as viewed by us,is it?Cuz it ha no length also it duznt travel thru time?
 
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  • #35
anantchowdhary said:
Hey so if it takes a longer time then isn't Fermat's Principle of least time being violated
Not if you correctly understand the principle.
anantchowdhary said:
Also so a photon has to be two dimensional as viewed by us,is it?Cuz it ha no length also it duznt travel thru time?
From our point of view photons do experience time.
 
  • #36
ohk i get ur second point but not the first.Could you please elaborate
 
  • #37
anantchowdhary said:
ohk i get ur second point but not the first.Could you please elaborate

Einstein once said, "for every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction".
If you take Fermats' work and apply time/distance to the concept, that's what it equals.
It could be that what fermat meant by path of least time is less energy expended. For light to change direction would require a greater energy expenditure.
But to follow its' path, it will be conserving energy.
Hope this helps.
 
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  • #38
Jimmini said:
Einstein once said, "for every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction".

Whilst Einstein may have said it, this is Newton's third law!
 
  • #39
cristo said:
Whilst Einstein may have said it, this is Newton's third law!

I like Einstein better :).
 

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