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Alternative theories being tested by Gravity probe B |
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| Mar5-06, 01:27 AM | #18 |
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Alternative theories being tested by Gravity probe B
Indeed, Garth. Let the data speak for itself. I do not lean either way, and I am certain you feel the same way. It will be difficult to sieve through the data . . . I hope you will be critical of that process.
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| Mar7-06, 03:52 AM | #19 |
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Has anyone done a parameterized post-Newtonian analysis? Can one express the expected results in terms of the usual Eddington alpha, beta gamma and higher order parameters? Any refs?
Best, Jim |
| Mar7-06, 04:04 AM | #20 |
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I should have googled first. Apparently it tests gamma and alpha-one ( a non-conservative parameter), according to Will.
No doubt that is why Nordstrom thinks the money has been wasted, as gamma has already been strongly constrained and most people believe in the conservation laws. Best, Jim |
| Mar7-06, 07:00 AM | #21 |
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The fact that other viable alternative gravitational/cosmological theories are also being tested by GP-B, such as SCC, makes the enterprise worthwhile. This is especially so in the light of persistent problems with the standard model, even if we gloss over the fact that the Higgs boson/inflaton, the DM particle and DE have not been identified in the laboratory. A recent paper examines a link between DM and baryonic matter Cold Dark Matter as Compact Composite Objects All the more reason to keep an open mind and continue to confirm our "beliefs" with experimental verification. We live in interesting times! Garth |
| Mar7-06, 08:26 AM | #22 |
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They both use the parameterized post-Newtonian (PPN) analysis. Garth |
| May5-06, 06:05 AM | #23 |
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Halfway through Phase II!
The latest release from the Gravity Probe B website. Garth |
| Jul12-06, 01:09 AM | #24 |
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Recognitions:
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Thanks for the list of off Broadway gravitation theories. Here's another, alternative theorist with a prediction (0.000):
http://www.mass-metricgravity.net/ By the way, I'm working on a flat space gravitation simulator. My original purpose was to show how standard GR differed from the Cambridge gauge gravity version of GR. The Cambridge guys say that their version works on flat space and test particles therefore cross the event horizon in finite coordinate time. Their website is http://www.mrao.cam.ac.uk/~clifford/ . For reasons having to do with elementary particles, I find the Cambridge theory convincing, and I thought an animation showing the GR particles getting stuck on the event horizon while the Cambridge particles went on through to the singularity would be convincing. Now so far I've only got the Newtonian gravity running: http://www.gaugegravity.com/testappl...etGravity.html but I should get GR running this weekend, and the Cambridge version (which amounts to allowing a non diagonal metric) soon after. Where this all gets back to this forum is that I would like to include as many gravity theories as possible, and you've listed quite a few. In order for a theory to be used, I have to be able to write the acceleration in terms of position and velocity. Carl |
| Jul21-06, 10:17 AM | #25 |
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R.L. Collins |
| Jul22-06, 01:05 AM | #26 |
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Professor Collins,
Please allow me to be the first to welcome you to physics forums. Here are links to your three very fascinating papers on gravitation, in the order I think they should be read: Changing Mass Corrects Newtonian Gravity Newton's inverse-square law of universal gravitation assumes constant mass. But mass increases with speed and perhaps with gravity. By SR, mass is increased over the rest mass by gamma. Rest mass is here postulated to increase under gravity, by [tex]1/\alpha =1+GM/rc^2[/tex]. We examine the consequences of introducing this changing mass into Newton's law in flat spacetime. This variable mass affects the metric, relative to an observer away from the influence of gravity, contracting both lengths and times (as measured) by alpha/gamma. The gravitational force, as in orbital calculations, differs from Newton's law by the factor [tex](\gamma/\alpha)^3[/tex], and is not quite inverse square. Without adjustable parameters, this accounts fully for the classical tests of GR. The postulated "fifth force" appears at the [tex]10^-9[/tex] g level. Gravitationally-influenced space remains Euclidean, but the mass-metric changes make it seem curved when measured. http://www.arxiv.org/abs/physics/0012059 SN1a Supernova Red Shifts http://www.arxiv.org/abs/physics/0101033 The shrinking Hubble constant http://www.arxiv.org/abs/physics/0601013 By the way, I've just got a first cut of a GR simulating program done. I'm not very sure of it, but it seems like it works okay (but I'm not much of a gravity guy): http://www.gaugegravity.com/testappl...etGravity.html I've set the initial conditions to illustrate a fairly extreme case of precession. When I get this program running satisfactorily, I will include your equation of motion. I can hardly wait, but ethanol is keeping me busy right now. Carl |
| Jul24-06, 11:39 AM | #27 |
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Note: 1. The first effect being tested is (for the GP-B polar orbit) a N-S geodetic precession, caused by the amount a gyro 'leans' over into the slope of curved space. 2. The second effect being tested is the E-W frame-dragging, Lense-Thirring, or gravitomagnetic effect, caused by the spinning Earth dragging space-time around with it. Einstein's General Relativity(GR) Barber's Self Creation Cosmology).(SCC), Moffat's Nonsymmetric Gravitational Theory (NGT), Hai-Long Zhao's mass variance SR theory (MVSR), Stanley Robertson's Newtonian Gravity theory (NG), and Junhao & Xiang's Flat space-time theory (FST). R. L. Collin's Mass-metric relativity (MMR) The predictions are: 1. GPB Geodetic precession GR = 6.6144 arcsec/yr SCC = 4.4096 arcsec/yr NGT = 6.6144 - a small [itex]\sigma[/itex] correction arcsec/yr MVSR = 6.6144 arcsec/yr NG = 1.6536 arcsec/yr FST = 4.4096 arcsec/yr MMR = -6.56124 arcsec/yr 2. GPB gravitomagnetic frame dragging precession GR = 0.0409 arcsec/yr SCC = 0.0409 arcsec/yr NGT = 0.0409 arcsec/yr MVSR = 0.0102 arcsec/yr NG = 0.0102 arcsec/yr FST = 0.0000 arcsec/yr MMR = -0.01924 arcsec/yr Garth |
| Jul24-06, 11:59 AM | #28 |
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If not you can publish it here in the Independent Research Forum and we can discuss it. Garth |
| Sep15-06, 03:57 PM | #29 |
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| Sep20-06, 11:27 AM | #30 |
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While we are waiting you may be interested in Francis Everitt's lecture:Testing Einstein in Space: The Gravity Probe B Mission dated 18 May 2006.
Garth |
| Dec23-06, 04:06 AM | #31 |
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Gravity Probe B Update -- December 22, 2006
Roll on April! Garth |
| Dec31-06, 02:58 AM | #32 |
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.What is actually the main motivation for inventing alternative theories to GR ? What are their main "advantages" ? |
| Dec31-06, 04:35 AM | #33 |
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Viable alternative theories are important to test the standard theory against, partly to justify and motivate such difficult experiments as Gravity Probe B. As I said in your quote "Some researchers, such as Kenneth Nordtvedt, have said that the experiment was worth doing when it was first proposed but that now GR has been verified beyond reasonable doubt the result of GP-B is a foregone conclusion." The existence of these other theories argues for a more positive attitude to the experiment. There are always questions to be asked of the standard theory that other approaches seek to answer. The main questions about the standard [itex]\Lambda[/itex]CDM model IMHO are its necessity to invoke Inflation, exotic non-baryonic DM and DE, while the Higgs Boson/Inflaton the DM particle(s) and DE have not been discovered in laboratory experiments. The existence of the PA and other anomalies are also intriguing. Different alternative theories have different advantages, but to be viable contenders they must not only predict accurately the outcomes of all the experiments and observations predicted by the standard theory but also have a greater explanatory power by doing so more simply. Garth |
| Jan8-07, 05:16 AM | #34 |
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Dear all,
Just to mention that there is another alternative theory of gravity (mine: gr-qc/0610079) with predictions different from the ones that you have listed. This is a DArk Gravity theory: DG predicts: 1) The same geodetic effect as in GR 2) No frame dragging 3) A small (but hopefully within the GP-B accuracy) angular deviation during the year but with a one year period (related to the the speed of earth about the sun). regards, F H-C |
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