by Ivan Seeking
 P: 639 One example of this is the infamous Q-Ray bracelet. The FTC filed a complaint with the courts on May 27, 2003, after several months of investigation and preparation for litigation. (see ftc.gov/os/caselist/0323011/qtinccmp.pdf). After four and a half years of complex, protracted litigation, Judge Frank Easterbrook, the Chief Judge of the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals ordered reimbursement in a minimum amount of $22.5 million up to a maximum of$87 million. Of course the scammers earned much more during this time and they will continue to scam people in other countries.
 PF Gold P: 7,363 Here is Dr. Frank - the quack that is selling 2-oz spray bottles of water for only $19.95, plus$6.94 S&H. His commercials are running in heavy rotation - must be a REALLY profitable business. http://www.nopainspray.com/indexHJR_...07.asp?tid=100
P: 9,562
 Quote by turbo-1 Here is Dr. Frank - the quack that is selling 2-oz spray bottles of water for only $19.95, plus$6.94 S&H. His commercials are running in heavy rotation - must be a REALLY profitable business.
I've also seen an infomercial for a pet pain relief spray too.
 P: 134 I hear of much skepticism, but of no debunking. Sounds like group thinking taking over to me.
P: 639
 Quote by W3pcq I hear of much skepticism, but of no debunking. Sounds like group thinking taking over to me.
Read post #6, signed by me. What more debunking do you want?
Emeritus
PF Gold
P: 12,270
 Quote by Greg Bernhardt Can't these scam companies be sued for false advertising if the product doesn't work as described?
The problem there is that usually the people buying them are gullible enough to believe the claims, and don't question the results.

I have heard of one company that finally got shut down for mail fraud...instead of being raided by cops, it was the Postal Inspectors and Postal Police that finally nabbed them.

From the descriptions I'm reading of them resembling a maxi pad, there probably is at least as much benefit as sticking a maxi pad in your shoes...a little extra padding and some absorption of moisture. Nothing special, and not removing "toxins" from the body, but nothing particularly harmful, and maybe slightly more comfortable than wearing cheap shoes without such padding.
PF Gold
P: 7,363
 Quote by W3pcq I hear of much skepticism, but of no debunking. Sounds like group thinking taking over to me.
As for the sprays, homeopathic medicines are supposedly made stronger by diluting them. Once you get to significant dilution ratios, it is likely that there is no molecule of the "active" ingredient in the solvent (water, alcohol, etc). This requires no debunking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

 The chances of a single molecule of the original substance remaining in a 15C dilution would be roughly 1 in 2 million, and less than one in a billion billion billion billion (1036) for a 30C solution. For a perspective on these numbers, there are in the order of 1032 molecules of water in an Olympic size swimming pool and if such a pool were filled with a 15C homeopathic remedy, to expect to get a single molecule from the original substance, one would need to swallow 1% of the volume of such a pool, or roughly 25 metric tons of water.
 Sci Advisor HW Helper PF Gold P: 3,724 Oh yeah.. but the water remembers the shape of the dissolved substance and induces the rest of the water to adopt that corresponding remembered shape. You gotta have faith in these products! (and $19.95 plus$6.95 shipping and handling) I sure hope that water doesn't have a memory... I've been so cruel to water in the past.
Mentor
P: 26,547
 Quote by chemisttree I sure hope that water doesn't have a memory... I've been so cruel to water in the past.

Well, here you have it, conclusive scientific evidence, but held back by
 Many of those involved in the research areas of water memory and templating have had difficult times in bringing this developing science to the attention of the medical community. One has to believe that the solid entrenchment of the pharmaceutical industry in the American Medical Association as well as the interlocking financial nature of medical professionals with the pharmaceutical industries, pharmacies and other drug dispensories has much to do with the difficulty this science has found in going to work and solving serious medical problems.
Riiight. It's a conspiracy.

http://www.aquatechnology.net/watermemory.html

Or Emoto (we have a number of threads on this one)

 Masaru Emoto (江本勝, Emoto Masaru?, b. July 22, 1943, Yokohama, Japan) is an author known for his controversial claim that if human thoughts are directed at water before it is frozen, images of the resulting water crystals will be beautiful or ugly depending upon whether the thoughts were positive or negative. Emoto claims this can be achieved through prayer, music or by attaching written words to a container of water.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masaru_Emoto

If that hasn't frightened you try this.

http://www.physicsforums.com/showpos...96&postcount=1
 P: 1 To those still thinking the kinoki foot pads might possibly work: Of all the toxins alleged to come out of the feet into the pads, which toxins would be responsible for turning the pads a dark color? If I’m not mistaken, the colors of those chemicals are nothing but clear or white. If you disagree, please show which of the toxic chemicals purported to reside in the body have a dark brown color. Unless you can explain how the darkening discoloration would in any way support kinoki’s claim (detoxification / the presence of toxic chemicals in the pads), their initial premise is false.
 Admin P: 9,562 Can anyone debunk their claim that trees discard toxins from the sun down through the trees roots?
P: 863
 Quote by erktmed To those still thinking the kinoki foot pads might possibly work: Of all the toxins alleged to come out of the feet into the pads, which toxins would be responsible for turning the pads a dark color? If I’m not mistaken, the colors of those chemicals are nothing but clear or white. If you disagree, please show which of the toxic chemicals purported to reside in the body have a dark brown color. Unless you can explain how the darkening discoloration would in any way support kinoki’s claim (detoxification / the presence of toxic chemicals in the pads), their initial premise is false.
You're essentially pooping through your feet. I don't know about you all, but that's been my dream since I was a kid.

I'll take 20!
Emeritus
PF Gold
P: 12,270
 Quote by Greg Bernhardt Can anyone debunk their claim that trees discard toxins from the sun down through the trees roots?
What toxins from the sun? I'm not a plant biologist, but I only know of plants taking up nutrients from the soil into their roots, and other exchanges of gases occurring through the stomata in the stems and leaves.

But, it hardly matters, does it? Afterall, humans aren't plants. We don't remove wastes from our body through our feet, we do so through our renal and digestive systems. If you're unable to properly filter toxins out of your body, you don't need foot pads, you need dialysis.
P: 2
 Quote by erktmed If I’m not mistaken, the colors of those chemicals are nothing but clear or white. If you disagree, please show which of the toxic chemicals purported to reside in the body have a dark brown color. Unless you can explain how the darkening discoloration would in any way support kinoki’s claim (detoxification / the presence of toxic chemicals in the pads), their initial premise is false.
There may be a whole host of reasons why they don't work, but this argument can't be among them. I am a 30+ year aquarist and I routinely use "detox pads" in my reef aquariums to remove heavy metals and other impurities that my other natural filtration does not remove. These pads are 12"x12" white porous filter material with the consistancy close to those cut-to-fit A/C filters. I just float these in my sump and within a couple weeks they are jet black with impurities. The color is not due to particulate being caught as there is a particulate filter prior to this area of the sump. I once used one of these in a friend's tank who's house had copper piping. Within a couple days it was sky blue due to the copper it pulled from the water. The reason mine (and most people's) turn black is because there are so many chemicals that manifest themselves in different colors and when all are combined you get black.
P: 1,011
 Quote by Rocketmandb There may be a whole host of reasons why they don't work, but this argument can't be among them. I am a 30+ year aquarist and I routinely use "detox pads" in my reef aquariums to remove heavy metals and other impurities that my other natural filtration does not remove. These pads are 12"x12" white porous filter material with the consistancy close to those cut-to-fit A/C filters. I just float these in my sump and within a couple weeks they are jet black with impurities. The color is not due to particulate being caught as there is a particulate filter prior to this area of the sump. I once used one of these in a friend's tank who's house had copper piping. Within a couple days it was sky blue due to the copper it pulled from the water. The reason mine (and most people's) turn black is because there are so many chemicals that manifest themselves in different colors and when all are combined you get black.
So maybe the Kinoki foot pads are like "Ionic Breeze" for your feet.
P: 2
 Quote by kmarinas86 So maybe the Kinoki foot pads are like "Ionic Breeze" for your feet.
Your link just took me to the home page for Sharper Image. I was too lazy to look up the latest on their Ionic Breeze product, but I did like this cool chair! :)
 P: 11 :) Hello! I know this isnt exactly a new thread, but I felt like I had to comment. I literally joined this forum because of this thread (after finding it in a search) I think every response here has been absolutely hysterical! :) Nice job lol.
P: 639
From http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4101
 The active ingredient in Kinoki footpads is powdered wood vinegar. When it's dried, it forms a colorless powder. In its normal liquid state, it's dark brown or black. Contact with perspiration from your foot reconstitutes the acetic acid in the wood vinegar, and the dark liquid stains the pad. Presto, science in action, and no magical transport of mysterious "toxins" through non-permeable skin is needed to explain the effect.

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