Scientists with low IQs

redargon

Regarding the original post:

Is it possible that testing techniques have changed over the years and could make up for different scores for people from different decades? Also, I'm not sure if IQ tests are standard. I've done many different IQ tests officially and unofficially (ie. with researchers and without) and the results do differ. Also, attempting to put this in a different way: You've seen those photos of your favourite movie star plastered on the tabloids with their cellulite and acne and the beer gut. They look just like you and me, maybe worse , but they still make poo loads of money doing a job that "requires" perfect looks.
I know many sports people with lower "sporting potential" (let's call it SP) than me because they have one arm or no legs. Let's say my SP is 100 (i have all normal bodily capability so I sit at 100%) and someone missing an arm has an SP of 75 (because he can't do all the things I can in a standardised test). But I'm telling you right now that my one armed friend would kick me into yesterday in a swimming race, because he is awesome at that. He trains (does not come into play in a SP test), has learned technique and has more heart than anyone in the pool. Why should someone's IQ determine what job they could perform?

My opinion on IQ in general:
I remember thinking, some days I could solve any pattern problem you could throw at me and some days it seems as if my brain just isn't in the problem solving mood and I stumble around a problem for ages with bad results. This must affect IQ test results. What about those questions you get to in the last five minutes of the test and you just randomly guess the answers for. Say you got 25% of those right (considering a,b,c,d multiple choice) for 20 questions that you just guess at the end.

Also, I've noticed that people who are defensive about their own IQ score (maybe they feel it is not an accurate representation of their actual intelligence) are the first to say that the tests are worthless. We don't even know if we compare with others or not. I couldn't tell you the IQ of any of my friends or even my family for that matter, nobody shares that kind of info. Why is IQ such a secretive and elitist number? Not sure if anyone has mentioned their own number here. People do hold a certain value to it, obviously, or otherwise everyone would have put their IQ at the top of their post with no fear of comment. I've never been asked in any job interview or entrance exam for my IQ. Is it really then such a standard of intelligence? And if I told them would they believe me or think I was just boosting my self worth. Like telling people how much money you have or how much you weigh or how big your... hand is.

IQ from results that have been revealed: between 125 and 135. That's apparently above average. Why did I fail subjects at university and only produce ok results? (a couple of A's but mostly B's C's and D's) Because it was damn hard no matter what anyone's IQ was and I didn't always work very hard, but even when I did, I still battled sometimes). Now I'm a practising engineer and I know other engineers with higher and lower IQ's, doesn't make them any more or less of an engineer. Just as I would assume your IQ wouldn't make you any better or worse at being a scientist.

Kurdt

I'm sorry Howers, but are you suggesting that you need a high IQ to be original and creative? I was not denying that some people have a talent for one particular thing. I was merely addressing the OP and saying that high IQ is not a requirement to be a scientist. As with anything, putting in the hours is the key.

Astronuc

My grandfather was sharp as a tack and quite mentally proficient at 100. He read everyday, kept up with current events and world affairs, and provided meals and services for younger people (in their 80's and 90's) who were less capable (mobile) than him.

I have found it much easier to learn a new language in my 40's and 50's than I did at 7. I have context and knowledge now that I didn't have in primary school.

Howers

I am not advocating in any way that IQ be used in place of achievement. It is a measure of innate intelligence and not something that an individual can control. What I am saying is IQ definately is needed to produce good work - or it at the very least increases the odds of producing good work. Not that employers should use it in screening applicants. Even though they currently do, as do medical and grad schools - what do you think is the point of admission tests?

To maze, some have theorized that everyone is born with an IQ "scale". This means if you exercise your brain often and are brought up in a good enviornment, you can score at the higher end of this scale and it wouldn't be surprising to see your score go as high as 15 points. In your case, I am assuming you had not dealt with 3d imagines much before and after exposure they seemed more natural.

There are different forms of originality and creativity. IQ tends to predict the academic ones. The reason I am so cynical about this is because of what I learned from tutoring high school students. Some students pick up on math really fast, and others need to be reminded constantly of what we are doing. There was even a girl who didn't truly understand the concept of division. She was in grade 12, and after a week of teaching her the basic operation from scratch she still did not follow. All she knew was the divison table she memorized years ago. Even to this day, if you ask her what 5/0 is she will say zero. Something I mentioned to her atleast 90 times. Sadly, I just gave up on her. Not surprisingly, the better students were naturally more logical as well. You can guess how logical she was. So if there is a threshold to pass in understanding concepts, it is natural to infer that there is another threshold to pass to create ideals. If you can show me an original academic with a low IQ, which this thread aims to do, I will happily throw out any importance to the score. Until then, I must let facts govern my judgement.

Note: My own score is not particularily high, just a mere "above average". I am not defending IQ on the basis of defending my intelligence. I hate the idea of IQ - something one has no control over, just as I hate the idea of genetic disease. But I have read enough about it to see it is actually quite accurate.

Astronuc

I can sympathize with teaching or being a tutor. I taught freshman students in an introductory engineering class. They struggled with simple word problems that 8th or 9th graders should understand! That was 20+ years ago, and I see no improvement since, and it reflected a problem I had identified when I was in high school 30+ years ago. (When I was a senior in high school, I got pulled out of my AP chemistry class for a few days to substitute teach the regular chemistry class because the teacher was ill.) The educational system in the US is fundamentally flawed to the point that a majority of students fail to achieve their full potential.

However, with respect to the 12th grader, how does one differentiate between innate capability and the achievement (or lack thereof) of the educational experience. Perhaps she was never challenged or never taught in a way that was conducive to her learning. Clearly some people lack the ability to learn, but most do have the potential, although it varies widely. Then we must consider that different people learn differently, and this reflects on one of the greatest failures of the US (and perhaps elsewhere) educational system - that being 'one size does not fit all'. In general, we use an assembly line approach to education that attempts to move everyone at the same rate - and that doesn't work. Each student needs a customized education!

My kids needed help outside of the normal class, and we had to go to great effort to get that supplemental help. My wife works with kids who need extra help in school, and that appears to be an exception than the norm, and it seems to work on a school by school, district by district basis.

Now getting back to the OP, I think it shows that folks with relatively average (not exceptional IQ) can achieve great work, and it does not require a high IQ. Having a high IQ may be sufficient, but it's not necessary to achieve.

vociferous

On a lot of IQ tests, a score of around 130 will put you in the top 98th or 99th percentile. None of the scores you posted are "low", as in below average.

In fact, I would expect that the average score for someone with a PhD in a field of Physics would be somewhere between 118-135 depending on the test, so the scores for these supposed "low scorers" actually looks pretty average, or if anything, slightly below average for people in their fields.

Einstein, for instance, certainly had a high IQ, but not nearly as high as many of his more famous (at the time) contemporaries, which just goes to prove that genius simply is not measured simply by a score on a test, it is also hard work, creativity, luck, and a certain je ne sais quoi.

scientiavore

This game claims to boost your IQ: http://dual-n-back.com/

IMHO intelligence is not something that is fixed, it's always changing, granted, some people are "naturally" better than others at specific things, but that does not mean anything, practice makes perfect, if you really care about something, you can do it, it's just a matter of time.

turbo

Huh?

lisab

wait...what?

Negatron

What is going on, where am I?

Attraction

Agreed. No matter how high your intuitive aptitude is, if you don't put forth the necessary effort, you will not achieve as much as someone of a lower intuitive aptitude who puts in many more hours. It's all about ATTITUDE and GOALS. I've seen it and also been a victim of it. People who I naturally excelled past in high school, have better qualifications than me now because I had the wrong attitude and didn't apply myself like I should have. The shame of it all is that I really have the ability, I really do. However, I am much smarter now and on the right track.

Attraction

This is the key point. Teachers tend to teach in THEIR OWN LEARNING STYLE. Some students are predominantly auditory learners, others are predominantly visual, others are predominantly physical and so on. Generally we have all three aspects but are more dominant in one. Teachers tend to only use ONE style of teaching which is supposed to fit every student in the room. It just doesn't work like that and it's no wonder you get students who "hate" that class or find it boring. The teacher is not catering to their styles of learning. It is difficult and maybe unrealistic to expect teachers to teach each individual selectively for optimized results. A good start would be to engage the different modalities a lot more when teaching a large group, rather than just focusing on one.

j93

I dont understand how people could speak of IQ tests as if it had a 100 % scientifically proven correlation to intelligence. I for one dont know where in between 0 and 100% correlation it has but the one thing I can be sure of it is that it is not 0 and 100 % percent yet nobody believes it has 0 % correlation but there are a decent amount of those believing blindly as if it was some religion that it has a 100% correlation with intelligence.

elfboy

IQ scores are a valid way of measuring abstract thinking- skills necessary for advanced physics & math. If you don't score high enough don't blame the test, blame yourself for not being that smart. Feynman, who only scored 126, was described as 'slow' , and 'lacking in rigor' by some of his lesser known contemporaries. He was smart, but by no stretch of the imagination a genius.

Jack21222

Away, foul necromancer!

leroyjenkens

Since when is IQ the end all be all for deciding who's a genius and who isn't?

Gokul43201

No stretch of your imagination, perhaps! My imagination needs very little stretching to accommodate that idea.

PS: From your dismissal of his intellectual capabilities - one that is contrary to common estimation - you are claiming, at the minimum, a comprehension of most of his notable scientific work. How many of Feynman's papers have you read and understood, and which ones?