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Should we send interstellar probe to Alpha Centauri? |
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| Jul14-08, 03:35 PM | #18 |
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Should we send interstellar probe to Alpha Centauri?It was dubbed the Mars Curse or the Galactic Ghoul. |
| Jul14-08, 04:03 PM | #19 |
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Like Asto pointed out, there is an operational rail gun being tested for the Navy. |
| Jul14-08, 04:23 PM | #20 |
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This is the engineering forum, so no one commented on this:
a: If there was, we'd probably have detected it already. b: It's a triple-star system so such a planet would probably not have a uniform/stable orbit. That's a lot of effort to answer a question that's already got a "probably not" answer. |
| Jul14-08, 04:43 PM | #21 |
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I wonder how we would react to a probe coming in
that was useing H-bombs to slow down I think we need a better system before we try to explore |
| Jul14-08, 04:53 PM | #22 |
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Footfall - Larry Niven |
| Jul14-08, 05:24 PM | #23 |
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Mentor
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| Jul14-08, 06:32 PM | #24 |
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Regardless, your results miss the point: you're only counting lander attempts. All lander attempts on either Mars or A. Centauri must first get there - which means you include the en route failures too. I am trying to point out that landing is a relatively minor problem in the scope of long missions. The bigger problem is just getting there in the first place. Or put another way: If 98 out of 100 men died crossing the desert, and one of the two remaining died by drinking from a poisoned well, would you be claiming that 50% of the failed desert crossings were due to poisoned water?
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| Jul14-08, 06:51 PM | #25 |
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From http://oig.nasa.gov/old/inspections_assessments/MPL.pdf, I've ignored the stuff about a mission to Alpha Centauri because, to be blunt, the concept is entirely ludicrous. A lander, doubly so. |
| Jul14-08, 07:00 PM | #26 |
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The claim was that "the most dangerous part of a mission is the landing". I am refuting that claim. Landing or no, most missions have been lost in transit. This is relevant to any long-term mission. Again, there's little point in worrying about landing issues if the craft never makes it there. Again, you're concentrating on the poisoned well, and regarding the 98 dead men as immaterial to the mission success ratio. |
| Jul14-08, 10:27 PM | #27 |
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Nearly all of the problems with space missions occur at the start or at the end of the journey. Very few missions fail en route. A mission to Alpha Centauri is a different beast. Assuming present-day technologies such a journey would take hundreds of years or more. In this case we would have to worry about things going wrong en route. The vehicle would have to expend a lot of energy just to stay warm and a would have to expend a whole lot of energy to communicate with Earth. The propulsion, avionics, communications, and sensors systems would have to be extremely redundant to accommodate the inevitable failures that would occur in such a long mission. Assuming future technologies casts the problem into the realm of science fiction. This is the easy way out because it sweeps all of the hard problems under the rug. |
| Jul15-08, 11:18 AM | #28 |
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Ok. I just calculated that about 99.78% of the mass of the probe will be fuel, if assuming [tex]\Delta v = 29979245.8 + 29979245.8 = 59958491.6[/tex] m/s and maximum exhaust velocity of hydrogen nuke Orion of [tex]v_{e} = 9800000[/tex] m/s. That's a big fraction of fuel, I know...
Off topic. I also know you think I am crazy. Maybe I am but how about those who believe in ghosts, angels or god? I have never seen a scientific proves of the existence of super natural forces! I am just believing that engineers/scientists can overcome the problems of space exploration... |
| Jul15-08, 11:58 AM | #29 |
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It's just that this forum mainly deals with present-day, established physics and technology, and tends not to deal with speculation so much. |
| Jul15-08, 12:18 PM | #30 |
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I don't know how long a time the accelerating takes exactly. If a = 10g = 98,1 m/sē, then accelerating to 0.1c takes about 85 hours. I think the magnitude of the fuel fraction maybe somewhat correct, but the exhaust velocity might be too optimistic. I took it from here. |
| Jul15-08, 12:40 PM | #31 |
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| Jul15-08, 03:50 PM | #32 |
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As for the railguns that were operational 20+ years ago, probably I have communicated my thoughts quite badly. English is not my native language and I sometimes use words sloppily even in german. The heart of the problem seems to be my (possibly wrong) usage of the word "operational". What I had in my mind when saying that I have not seen an operational railgun yet was something like "a weapon system that is ready to be used in the field right now", (as opposed to a prototype in the lab). The best I could find in this context was a definition of "Initial Operational Capability", don't know whether it's an offical definition of this term, but anyway this is quite precisely what I meant: "The first attainment of the capability to employ effectively a weapon, item of equipment, or system of approved specific characteristics, and which is manned or operated by an adequately trained, equipped, and supported military unit or force." Now I have the impression that when YOU say "operational" you mean "something that works" (as opposed to something that is not working yet) and OK, this might just be the normal meaning of the word. Anyway, maybe I should have said "I have not seen an operationally deployed railgun yet", then I could have avoided this misunderstanding, sorry for this. |
| Jul15-08, 04:15 PM | #33 |
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| Jul15-08, 05:01 PM | #34 |
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First thing, for the probe to tolerate such an acceleration without breaking apart, you would need a massive support structure, which would add a lot of mass to your probe => Kiss your 99,78% goodbye. Second thing, there is no need for such a high acceleration. You need 40 years as a minimum, so would it hurt much to add e.g. 850 days for the acceleration phase ? |
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