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Jon Huntsman named Ambassador to China

by LowlyPion
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LowlyPion
#1
May16-09, 09:31 AM
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On the whole, he looks like a good choice. Irrespective of political considerations.

Of course that also likely means there goes one potential contender in 2012. Not that he would be a threat necessarily to Obama. From Huntsman's point of view it looks like it may be a good move for 2016. Hilary may not be quite so thrilled to see his elevation. Neither would Jindal or Palin be advantaged in their own aspirations, but then they likely are already self limited by their own shortcomings.

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WhoWee
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May16-09, 09:51 AM
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Quote Quote by LowlyPion View Post
On the whole, he looks like a good choice. Irrespective of political considerations.

Of course that also likely means there goes one potential contender in 2012. Not that he would be a threat necessarily to Obama. From Huntsman's point of view it looks like it may be a good move for 2016. Hilary may not be quite so thrilled to see his elevation. Neither would Jindal or Palin be advantaged in their own aspirations, but then they likely are already self limited by their own shortcomings.

Let's see...son of a billionaire, worked for Reagan and Bush, moderate Republican Governor from Utah, a Mormon, speaks fluent Mandarin...I see why you like him...seems to be qualified.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/wash...ama-china.html
LowlyPion
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May16-09, 12:44 PM
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Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
Let's see...son of a billionaire, worked for Reagan and Bush, moderate Republican Governor from Utah, a Mormon, speaks fluent Mandarin...I see why you like him...seems to be qualified.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/wash...ama-china.html
It's really Obama that likes him as fitting the position. I suppose that's all that matters. Personally I think being a Mormon is a fatal flaw for a candidate outside of Utah. Not exactly Christian, though Biblically inspired. Not quite anything else. For the Baptist Fundamentalists, I'd imagine their fervor for Hunstman, like Romney last year, would be more a tolerable means to an end, but absent any real passion, like getting to kiss their sister, than say being enthused by someone that's more one of them like Huckabee or Palin.

The family money is useful, but without the inspired base of zealots, I think a National coalition for Hunstman within the Republican Party to be pretty challenging. Family money can fund Utah elections, but a National campaign needs Warren Buffet to be your Dad, or else a wide base of the inspired like Obama managed last year.

From his point of view then I imagine the calculus is that he will get to advance his presence on a larger stage than just Salt Lake City, and expand his resume in a meaningful way. And without being closer to the seat of power, I think his row to hoe is pretty daunting.

Though the same may have been said of Obama 4 years ago, so ... who is to really know?

Ivan Seeking
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May16-09, 01:31 PM
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Jon Huntsman named Ambassador to China

Quote Quote by LowlyPion View Post
It's really Obama that likes him as fitting the position. I suppose that's all that matters. Personally I think being a Mormon is a fatal flaw for a candidate outside of Utah. Not exactly Christian...
Mormons are Christians. They use the Book of Mormon in addition to the Christian Bible.

The Book of Mormon is viewed as part II of the Bible.
ExactlySolved
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May16-09, 01:46 PM
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Mormons consider themselves to be christians, but a large number of catholics and protestants do not consider mormons to be christians ---just as believing the main points of 'part II of the Torah', as the new testament is sometimes called, excludes someone from being jewish in the eyes of most jews.
Ivan Seeking
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May16-09, 01:52 PM
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They believe that Christ is their savior and the son of God. That makes them Christians by definition. What other churches say is irrelevant.

Technically, the Catholics believe that only Catholics are real Christians. Other churches think Catholics are not really Christians [because they worship the Pope, or because they worship statues, or because they don't know that Saturday is the real Sabbath, etc, etc, etc.]
Ivan Seeking
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May16-09, 02:00 PM
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I can also say that having been a Mormon for short time in my early twenties, I would never vote for one.
LowlyPion
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May16-09, 04:11 PM
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Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking View Post
They believe that Christ is their savior and the son of God. That makes them Christians by definition. What other churches say is irrelevant.
I'll stand by my characterization of "not exactly", because regardless of what Mormons themselves believe about how their religion fits the mainstream of the events of Christian History, as regards political support from the corpus of the Religious Right, I think it's how the Baptists and Pentecostals perceive them that is the basis of my remark.

Note: It wasn't my intention to sidetrack the thread with any detailed discussion of Mormonism and it's similarities and differences with other Christian Denominations or offer any offense to Mormons. Here is a link for those with an interest in exploring this subject in greater detail, and maybe even opening a thread in Philosophy and Religion, if the need suits, that I found readily among many on Google that addresses what I see as a range of reasons that I think satisfactorily supports my assessment of them as being "not exactly" aligned with the sects of the Southern Bible Belt. And so, from a practical political point of view, I think it would be something to be overcome by Huntsman in enlisting their wholehearted support - which of course was my point from the start.
LowlyPion
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May16-09, 04:19 PM
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The Wikipedia entry for Huntsman offers a number of details that highlight his suitability for the position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Huntsman,_Jr.
lisab
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May16-09, 08:28 PM
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Well, he seems well qualified, IMO.

Perhaps his appointment, despite the controversy that surrounds his religion here in the states (as witnessed in this thread), will be a guide to China in its handling of religious factions it finds unpalatable. Falun Gong comes to mind.
Ivan Seeking
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May16-09, 09:51 PM
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Quote Quote by LowlyPion View Post
I'll stand by my characterization of "not exactly", because regardless of what Mormons themselves believe about how their religion fits the mainstream of the events of Christian History, as regards political support from the corpus of the Religious Right, I think it's how the Baptists and Pentecostals perceive them that is the basis of my remark.
Fair enough, but your are really appealing to specific beliefs rather than proper definitions. Many churches don't consider many other churches to be legitmate; mainstream or not. I don't know if being Mormon would make him any less popular with Catholics or Buddhists than being Baptist would. For that matter, many churches consider Pentecostals to be fringe [I know I did as a Catholic].
WhoWee
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May17-09, 11:38 AM
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Somehow I don't think he's going to try and convert any Chinese citizens (or Obama) to the Mormon religion? What is the point of this discussion other than to beat down an unpopular religion?

He appears to be qualified for the position.
LowlyPion
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May17-09, 11:58 AM
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Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
Somehow I don't think he's going to try and convert any Chinese citizens (or Obama) to the Mormon religion? What is the point of this discussion other than to beat down an unpopular religion?

He appears to be qualified for the position.
No one is beating down any religion here. My observation merely addressed the problem that Huntsman would, or might face, like Romney did in the last cycle. I think there is an undeniable lack of enthusiasm among the Fundamentalist Right ranks for Mormon candidates.

Personally, I think it is a canny choice by Obama, and certainly tends to undercut the will for even Republicans to avoid wanting to bask in his sunshine.

Imagine the country embracing socialism and the Republicans actually enjoying the ride and participating, despite their DNA?
WhoWee
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May17-09, 10:06 PM
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Quote Quote by LowlyPion View Post
No one is beating down any religion here. My observation merely addressed the problem that Huntsman would, or might face, like Romney did in the last cycle. I think there is an undeniable lack of enthusiasm among the Fundamentalist Right ranks for Mormon candidates.

Personally, I think it is a canny choice by Obama, and certainly tends to undercut the will for even Republicans to avoid wanting to bask in his sunshine.

Imagine the country embracing socialism and the Republicans actually enjoying the ride and participating, despite their DNA?
I think it might be time to forget about the sunblock and seek out some shade...the sun can play tricks on the mind...just sayin.
LowlyPion
#15
May17-09, 10:24 PM
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Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
I think it might be time to forget about the sunblock and seek out some shade...the sun can play tricks on the mind...just sayin.
It was pretty brilliant in South Bend today.

Even Fox was blinded by the light despite their best efforts.
CRGreathouse
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May18-09, 03:24 PM
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Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking View Post
They believe that Christ is their savior and the son of God. That makes them Christians by definition. What other churches say is irrelevant.
The Oxford English Dictionary has:
Of persons and communities: Believing, professing, or belonging to the religion of Christ.

The American Heritage Dictionary has:
One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

So the AHD would certainly accept Mormons as Christian, and I think the intent of the OED is the same. (Literally, it would seem to mean Christian = Jew, which I don't think is accurate.)

Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking View Post
Technically, the Catholics believe that only Catholics are real Christians.
This is factually incorrect. I'll look up a reference.


Catechism of the Catholic Church, 838:
"The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."324
WhoWee
#17
May18-09, 07:54 PM
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Why are we having a religious debate...did the Chinese object to his being Mormon?
Oscar Wilde
#18
May18-09, 08:48 PM
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Quote Quote by LowlyPion View Post
No one is beating down any religion here. My observation merely addressed the problem that Huntsman would, or might face, like Romney did in the last cycle. I think there is an undeniable lack of enthusiasm among the Fundamentalist Right ranks for Mormon candidates.

Personally, I think it is a canny choice by Obama, and certainly tends to undercut the will for even Republicans to avoid wanting to bask in his sunshine.

Imagine the country embracing socialism and the Republicans actually enjoying the ride and participating, despite their DNA?

Unless the Chinese have been harboring significant hatred towards those of the Mormon faith, I have no idea why his faith is even a topic worth discussing.

Perhaps it is time for you to purchase a pair of sunglasses before you too are blinded forever.


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